James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas (General)

by Woodcroft48, Wednesday, January 09, 2019, 23:13 (1060 days ago)

Hello,
I’m trying to trace my Great-Grandfather’s parents without much success. His name was James Edward Corne but he was known as Jim.
He was born in1886/1887. The first mention of him is in the 1891 census where he is aged 4 and is listed as a lodger living with Hannah Bond and Charles Richards of Woodcroft Cottage.
In the 1901 census,when James is 14, he is listed as living with Charles Richards and Hannah Richards at Broadrock, Tidenham.
James worked at the shipyard in Chepstow. He married my Great-Grandmother,Lily Thomas, at Tidenham in 1909. They lived at 16 Beachley
Road, Tutshill and had 3 children; Vera, Clarence and John all now deceased. My Grandmother used to talk about a Reverend Steer and how her father was friends with him.
James’ birth and his parents may well have caused some controversy at the time but since all involved are likely to be deceased, I would be really pleased to hear from anyone who can tell me anything about my great-grandad.

Kind regards and thank you in advance for any help you may be able to offer.

Woodcroft48

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 00:13 (1060 days ago) @ Woodcroft48

Genes reunited

In 1901 he gives his birthplace as Mid. London

In 1911 (married to Lily THOMAS and in her father’s household) he gives it as Tidenham

Genes Reunited,

England & Wales births 1837-2006
First Name James Edward
Last Name Corne
Birth Year 1886
Gender Male
Mother's Maiden Name
Year 1886
Country England
County London
Event Quarter 3
District St. Giles
District Number
Volume 1B
Page 619
Entry Number
Line Number 90
DOR
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Collections from Great Britain, England

GRO Index

CORNE, JAMES EDWARD Mother’s former name DENHAM
GRO Reference: 1886 S Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 619

Genes Reunited

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
First Name James Edward
Last Name Corne
Gender Male
Year 1908
Spouse
Image Quarter 4
Country Wales
County Monmouthshire
District Chepstow
District Number
Registry Number
Volume 11A
Page 31
Line Number 326
Entry Number
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Collections from Great Britain, Wales
James Edward Corne married one of the people below:

Mary Alice FORD
Lilian THOMAS


Ancestry 1939 Register

Name: James E Corne
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 7 Jun 1886
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 16 Beachley Road Tutshill
Residence Place: Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Occupation: Ship Rep & Boilermaker (H W
Schedule Number: 122
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: ODIA
Registration district: 323/5
Inferred Spouse: Lilian Corne
Inferred Children: Vera Corne
Household Members:
Name
James E Corne
Lilian Corne
Vera Corne

National Probate Register

CORNE James Edward of 16 Beachley Road Tutshill Tiddenham Gloucestershire died 17 October 1944 at the Mount Stewart Dry Dock Newport Monmouthshire Administration Llandaff 11 April to Lillie Corne Widow. Effects £1194 8s 6d

Rev Reginald Pemberton Steer, Tidenham

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 01:49 (1059 days ago) @ Woodcroft48

Hi, and a warm welcome to the forum and associated website.

I've found some information and a photo of Rev Steer by searching the net, part of which states.

"Reginald Pemberton Steer was born in Harborne, Birmingham, in 1883; his father Edward was the director of a steel and screw manufacturing company. Educated at Magdalen College, Oxford, and Cuddesdon Theological College near Oxford, Steer was ordained as a deacon in 1910, and was curate at St Matthew’s in Bethnal Green, London. In 1911 he married Gertrude Esther Johnston in Headington, and was ordained as a priest, being curate at All Saints Southampton, then rural dean and vicar of Tidenham in the Forest of Dean."

This webpage mainly describes his time incumbent at Stroud, Glos, but is still worth a look, probably best opened into a new window/tab.

https://www.stlaurencefuture.org.uk/list-of-incumbents.html

He was also Rev of Beachley at this time, according to the 1923 Kelly's Directory, see
http://places.wishful-thinking.org.uk/GLS/Beachley/index.html

Once again I belatedly ! see this subject has been covered in a prior thread within this forum, see
https://forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=18260


regards, J.

PS Have you tried searching the old newspapers for him, or your ancestors , on the BNA website ?

Rev Reginald Pemberton Steer, Tidenham

by Chris Cottom, Sunday, September 12, 2021, 17:20 (83 days ago) @ Jefff

Hello.

Whilst writing a short story inspired by the lives of my grandparents I searched online for Reginald Pemberton Steer and found this thread. After my grandfather died in 1970 I inherited his nicely bound Poems of Keats, in which there is the following handwritten inscription.

To
Reginald Potter
from
Reginald Pemberton Steer
in affectionate memory of Cuddesdon
Dec 15th 1909

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 02:23 (1059 days ago) @ Woodcroft48

I'm intrigued as to why a 4 year old from inner London was lodging at Tidenham. Have you traced the background of Charles and Hannah Richards for clues, do they have any links to London.
I expect you know that in the early 1800s St Giles was becoming rather infamous as an overcrowded area, especially the slum known as the "rookery", perhaps this why you think his birth may have caused concern within the family.

It may not be relevant, but searching the FreeBMD site for Marriages twixt Corne and Denham gives just one for the whole of their UK database, namely;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%)
CORNE Thomas Joseph Holborn 1b 1084
CORNES Thomas Joseph Holborn 1b 1084
Denham Eleanor Holborn 1b 1084
HOOKER Thomas Holborn 1b 1084
Marriott Clara Holborn 1b 1084

So, IF Thos Corne did marry Eleanor Denham, seeing as it took place less than a decade before Jim was born, and as Holborn district is immediately adjacent to St Giles, then it's possible they are his parents and they may themselves warrant further research ?.

J

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by MPGriffiths @, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 15:09 (1059 days ago) @ Jefff

Quite a lot on info on Ancestry - including banns of Thomas Joseph CORNE an Eleanor DENHAM - 1877 St James Clerkenwell

For Starters


This is the 1881 census -

29 Robert Street, St Andrews, London

Transcribed on Ancestry as CANE and in brackets (Thomas CORNE)

Thomas CANE - 25 - Lawyer's Clerk, born Drury Lane, Middlesex
Eleanor CANE - 24 - born Middx Clerkenwell
Eleanor H CANE - daugher - 3 - born ditto
Thomas G CANE - son - 1 - born ditto

James DENHAM - father-in-law - Lawyer's Clerk - 58 - born Middx
George DENHAM - brother-in-law - Postman - born Holborn


--


Just reading on ancestry,

London, England, School Admissions and Discharges 1840-1911

Eleanor H CORNE
Age 6
Birth Date: 6 Jan 1878
Admission Date: 4 February 1884
School, Manchester Street School
Father: Thomas CORNE

AND

Thomas G CORNE, birth date 29 February 1880 -


Eleanor left - 18 (can't see the month) 1885 and Thomas left, 16 March 1887 - very faint writing at the end of the dates which I can't read.


This is the 1891 Census, Middx, Edmonton District Strand Union Infant Establishment

CORNE

Thomas - 11
Eleanor - 13
Flora - 9 (GRO - Florence Maud CORNE - 1882, Holborn - mother's maiden name: DENHAM (her marriage is also on Ancestry- giving her father as Thomas)

all born Middx St Mary The Strand


---

London England Poor Law & Board of Guardian Records
Westminster Religious Creed, Edmonton Workhouse

CORNE

Eleanor 10 - Thomas 8 - Flora 6 - Admission Date: 4 February 1888 (Informant was an Aunt)

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by MPGriffiths @, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 15:45 (1059 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

There is a Public Members Tree on Ancestry - which says the Mother Eleanor died in 1886 - and also has the copy marriage of James' parents. An Alice DENHAM was a witness.

The trees say, George DENHAM brother-in-law aged 19 - was a half brother to Eleanor - but so far they haven't got back further


---


? not sure about this 1871 census

1871

James DUNHAM aged 48 (on this census return says he was born in Wales)
Harriet - 49
Edward - 22
Ellen (could be Eleanor) - 15 (born Clerkenwell) as also stated in later census'
George 9

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 17:49 (1059 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thanks for that M, certainly looks like young Thomas didn't come from the most prosperous family background. I wonder if there was some sort of charitable link between the Clerkenwell work house or Parish and the Chepstow area, or was he rehoused by his extended family, or ??
Intriguing stuff !

What seems certain is that his life was probably dramatically improved by not staying in the particularly "bleak" Clerkenwell Workhouse.

https://www.theclerkenwellpost.com/design/203-bleak-houses-workhouses

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Clerkenwell/

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by MPGriffiths @, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 19:35 (1059 days ago) @ Jefff

Forest of Dean records:

Marriage at Chepstow Beulah INDEPENDENT - 8 June 1908

Grooms Surname: COR-----
Grooms Forenames: James Edward
Bride Surname: THOMAS
Bride Forname: Lily

Officating Minister W H SKINNER

Notes: Some letters in the surname were illegible

No witness names:

----


Baptism at the same church - 8 April 1909

Vera CORW

parents: James Ed() and Lily - born 19 May 1909 St Anns St


-----

I am thinking this may be 'Bingo'


Looking back at the address given when the two children were admitted in 1884 i.e. Eleanor H CORNE and Thomas G CORNE the address given was

60 Kenton Street


...


Ancestry has the baptism at St Mary Magdalen's St Pancreas Middlesex

18 June 1886 (born 7 June 1886 - according to the 1939 Register)

of James CORNE

parents: Thomas Joseph & Helen

address: 60 Kenton Street, Brunswick Square

Thomas' occupation was Street Organ Grinder


now I did find a James CORNE 1891 census with a new wife and was a Street Musican


1891 Census, St Lukes

Thomas J CORNE - 34, Street Musician, born : Strand
Hannah CORNE - 31 - born St Giles
Henry CORNE - 1 - born Clerkenwell

---


The children are 'popping up' on Ancestry

Grace Adelaide CORNE - 25 August 1884 - christened same parents - living at 60 Kenton Street, Thomas Joseph & Eleanor and he was then a Printer's Assistant and Grace is in Manchester School Admissions in Camden, date of birth given 15 May §884 - and her father was Thomas - address given 18 Wakefield Street - just listed as Grace CORNE.

Grace CORNE aged 6 is listed as a Niece on the 1891 Census St Panc with John BRIMMERORLE ?? and Mary Ann

---

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by Woodcroft48, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 22:27 (1059 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Dear Both,
It certainly looks to me as if that could be James’s parents. What an absolutely dreadful start in life. No wonder the family didn’t really want to talk about it! I’ve given my mother the update but she is adamant that James’s mother was local to Chepstow. I do have her family address but out of respect and courtesy to that family, as they still have descendants living at the property, I have not gone down that route. I have ordered a copy of James’s birth certificate to see if his parents are named on there. I still can’t help wondering how James ended up in Woodcroft from London though.
Thank you both so much for your help. It is greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,
Woodcroft48

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 23:26 (1059 days ago) @ Woodcroft48

You're very welcome, it will indeed be interesting to see what the birth certificate reveals ! Am I correct in thinking we have confirmed your own researches, seeing as you searched the Clerkenwell records before posting on the forum, noit that it's a problem as it's always good to get a second opinion astwere.

I can understand your mother sticking to her belief that Jim was born a Forester.
It reminds me of my own Mum, a very stubborn lady indeed. For decades she firmly believed her husband's mother and family all originated from London. This was purely an assumption based on the fact our elderly aunt Maud lived in London and had always done as far as we knew. Both Maud and her sister (my grandmother) passed away in the 1980s, my dad followed a few years later, and it was over 15 years later when I started researching my family history from scratch. My researches proved that Dad's mum, my grandmother, and all her family going back many generations all came from the same small part of the Forest where Dad was born and where they'd always lived as long as mum came to know the family, and not London at all. All of them that is bar one; one of my Gran's eight older siblings, our Aunt Maud of course, who I found had was working in service in West London at the time of the 1911 census, in the same house was another young girl from her home village. Maud was the same elderly aunt who's "London background" firmly convinced my mum all her mother-in-laws family were Londoners.....
In fact despite my researches Mum still wasn't convinced until I looked into Maud's own marriage in the Biggin Hill area, luckily she married a man with an unusual surname, and eventually Mum recalled having once briefly visited Dad's relatives of that name somewhere in London near a busy wartime airfield.....

So maybe you will eventually find more compelling evidence, perhaps by enlarging the various trees until you see a link between Chepstow and London like I eventually did in my case, or maybe it's just best to let it lie.

Good luck either way.

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by MPGriffiths @, Friday, January 11, 2019, 09:05 (1058 days ago) @ Woodcroft48

Obviously James was loved and well looked after.

You have the date of birth of James from the 1939 Register - 7 June 1886

On the 1891 census it says he was born at the Universal Hospital London (and registered in the St Giles District)

Looking at the 1891 census, St Giles District - there are 12 plus the St George Bloomsbury Workhouse

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by MPGriffiths @, Friday, January 11, 2019, 14:46 (1058 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Looking back at the records of Grace CORNE who was aged 6 and Niece living with John BRIMMACOMBE (as it turns out his surname is) - with wife Mary (aged 35) and Son John aged 17 on the 1891 census.

It would seem from the London England School Admissions & Discharges, on the 16 January 1894 - Mr Brimacombe - was the person who put Grace in the School - Earlier, it says an Aunt had put the other 3 children into care.

Brimmacombe seems to be spelt with one m or two.....


John Edward Brimmacombe who was born in 1874 - according to the GRO Index - the mother's maiden name was CORNE


---

John Edward BRIMMACOMBE married Mary Ann CORNE - 25 December 1872 St Martin in the Fields, Westminster

?

This is the 1861 Census, Middx, Whitefriars

CORNE

Thomas j - 33 - Map Print Colour - born Middx, Clerkenwell
Adelaide - 29 - born WALES
Harriet - 11 - born Middx Strand (GRO - Mother's maiden name BARHAM
Mary Ann - 8
Thomas J - 6 (GRO mother's maiden name: BARHAM
Alice L - 4
Eliza - 1


1851 Census, Middx

Thomas CORNA (on Ancestry) - aged 32, Printer Colourer born Strand
Adelaide - 21, Map colourer -born S Wales Carmathan
Harriet (says aged 7, but reads 1) - born Strand


---

So it seems Thomas Joseph CORNE's sister, Mary Ann nee CORNE, Brimmacombe - took in Grace -


----
??
Adelaide BARHAM

birth date: 11 September 1831
baptism date: 30 June 1839

Saint Andrew, Holrborn London, England

father: John Thomas BARNHAM and Jemima


1841 Census, St Bride and Precint, London without Walles

Henry STRONG - 30
Jemima STRONG - 30
Adelard BARNHAM - 9 (not born in County)
Eliza STRONG - 5
Henry STRONG -3

James Edward Corne 1887 married Lily Thomas

by Woodcroft48, Thursday, January 10, 2019, 16:36 (1059 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you to everyone who has responded so quickly. I did think it was odd that a 4 year old from London would be a lodger in Tidenham. However, it does sort of fit with family “rumours” that James was the illegitimate child of a young lady from a local Chepstow well to do family and her music teacher! My grandmother used to say that James was placed in the care of 2 people in Tutshill and they were paid by James’s mother’s family to bring him up as their own. When the mother died, my great grandmother, Lily Thomas, had a visit from the mother’s solicitor as she’d left James money in her will. I am told the solicitor was despatched with a flea in his ear.
Whether any of this is true is anyone’s guess but it would be great to find out where we actually come from.
I visited the Metropolitan Archives on Monday and searched through the Camberwell workhouse infirmary records but to no avail.

Kind regards,

Woodcroft48

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