Cold Harbour (General)

by izzybfw @, Monday, June 07, 2021, 15:54 (105 days ago)

On a recent visit to the National Archives i came across the will of my 6x Great Grandfather (not available on Ancestry).

In it he leaves his son "All that my messuages,and lands called Cold Harbour in the Parish of St Briavells" he died 1806.

I have tried googling it, there does appear to be a road and area called Cold Harbour - but i cannot find a property in St Briavels - does anyone know of a place in St Briavels called Cold Harbour.

Thanks for any help.

Cold Harbour

by MPGriffiths @, Monday, June 07, 2021, 19:32 (105 days ago) @ izzybfw

If you use the Advance Search (i've just searched Baptisms, residence: Cold Harbour, (Parish of St Briavels)

from 1827 up to 1930 there are 17 baptisms listed.

There are also 42 deaths - listed as residence: Cold Harbour, St Briavels

(Just have to go through Census returns - for Enumerator's notes)

Cold Harbour

by izzybfw @, Monday, June 07, 2021, 20:45 (105 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Hi Thanks for your response - i have tried what you said and went to Parish Records and advanced search, but i cannot see where to search for residence?

Cold Harbour

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Monday, June 07, 2021, 22:10 (105 days ago) @ izzybfw

Hi

What was your 6th G/Grandfathers name ?
I have found information referring to a Charles Court and also William Court which looks promising to me.
William owned 18 plots of land and Charles was the occupier of 6 0f those.

Sid Toomey

Cold Harbour

by izzybfw @, Monday, June 07, 2021, 22:35 (105 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

6 x great grandfather was John Court, father of William and Charles - he also had another son John who was given the property at Cold Harbour - He had also brought 8 houses in Milk Lane in Bristol in 1751 which was left to either william or charles and also had property in Hewesfield?

regards

Cold Harbour

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 08:26 (104 days ago) @ izzybfw

If you do purchase the Tithe map from Geoffrey Watkins for St Briavels, the map for "Hewelsfield" should also be included as part of the purchase. Both are shown on his website as being Research map No.22

Sid Toomey

Cold Harbour

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Monday, June 07, 2021, 22:47 (105 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp247-271#highlight-first

British History on line has 3 mentions for the hamlet of Cold Harbour. In 1840 there were approx 5 cottages in the area comprising the hamlet.

In my previous reply regarding William Courts 18 plots of land, he is recorded as being also the occupier of one of them. This information comes from the Gloucestershire Tithe Apportionments data base which can be searched on line. The information on the 18 plots is dated 1840. In the data base each plot, apart from the names of the owner and also occupier there is a description together with the area. There is also a plot number. This number can be used to locate the plot on a Tithe Map.

To find the exact location of each plot, i would suggest purchasing a copy of the Tithe map from Geoff Watkins maps.
http://geoffgwatkinmaps.co.uk/Research-Maps-of-Gloucestershire.php
I believe the number of the map you would need is 22.
They usually come with a list of the names of owners and tenants.
I have purchased several maps from Geoff and have found him to be most helpful.
Check with him first re the map number to be sure i haven't had a senior's moment and given you the wrong information.

Good hunting

Sid Toomey

Cold Harbour

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Monday, June 07, 2021, 23:23 (105 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

You may already be aware of the following but if not, read on.
To find an old place or location i generally use either or both of the maps provided by :-
National Library of Scotland- Ordnance Survey Maps
Know your Place- Gloucestershire.
In this instance i used "Know Your Place - Gloucestershire (reason being is that it also has an information interlayer where other enthusiasts may have loaded photographs or information about a particular place which , if you are lucky, relate to your search)
When you first open the site you should be presented with a modern map which for me always seems to be centred on Gloucester Prison.
To get to Cold Harbour, I used the search facility in the box on the right of the screen. There weren't any results for Cold Harbour so i used "St Briavels". Picking one of the results and following the link, i ended up with a map showing St Briavels Castle Location. Because i know the modern "Cold Harbour Road" is located South West of the Castle, i dragged the modern map in that direction following the path of "Lower Road". You will come to an intersection of several roads, one of which is Cold Harbour Road.

Once i centred the modern map on "Cold Harbour Road" as the "Main Map" shown in the screen heading on the right of your screen, i selected a "comparison map" from the maps which will display in the box. The one i used was the "1844-1888 OS- 1st Edition".
By dragging the vertical screen divider left or right you can compare an old map with its modern version. Also in some searches you can also see Tithe maps for the area you are searching although "Murphy's Law" will generally prevail where the one you are looking for will be absent.

The National Library of Scotland site is also very good with an added feature of having a split screen of an old map synchronised beside a modern ? satellite view of the location. I am always amazed at how accurate the old mapping systems were.

Good luck

Sid Toomey

PS. If you do purchase the Tithe Map from Geoff Watkin, for my own interest, i would be curious to know the location of plot 394 which was the one occupied by William Court.

Cold Harbour

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 01:24 (105 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

Following on from my last reply, my gut feeling is that you will discover that William and Charles Court (at least at the time of the 1841 Census) were living almost side by side in the village at the base of the Castle, Their houses would not have been far from The George Inn (which still exists today). My reason for stating this is that the George Inn is situated on plot 389 which will not be too far from plot 394 which William occupied and plot 393, described as a "house, shop and garden" ,owned by William but occupied by Charles in 1840. (Their entries in the 1841 Census also place them as neighbours).

In the Gloucestershire Tithe Apportionment data base mentioned previously, it is possible to shuffle ALL of the plots of land in St Briavels numerically from 1<. When the Tithe maps were drawn consecutively numbered plots of land were generally (but not always) side by side.

Taking the numbers either side of 394 (William) and 393 (Charles) and comparing the names of the occupiers from the data base mentioned to the names in the 1841 Census listed before and after William and Charles, it should be possible to get a pretty close feel for where they lived.
Caroline Gardener lived in plot 392 (not owned by William). In the 1841 Census she was a School Mistess and her entry in the Census is two after Charles. Also listed with her are all the students at the school.

If you can find close entries for a known landmark, such as "The George Inn" and "Crown Beer House" then this could also help.

At the beginning of the 1841 Census Enumerators Book where Charles and William are listed, it states that the area covered was "all of the Village of St Briavels and Eastwards of the Turnpike Road to Coleford".

British History on Line also has a pretty good description of the extent of the village in 1840.

Have fun.

Sid Toomey

Cold Harbour

by izzybfw @, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 07:31 (104 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

Wow i am so impressed - i have never done anything like that before, never knew you could. Your instructions were so clear - i will have time later to go in depth. I am going to St Briavels this weekend, so keen to find somewhere to find. I have never been to that part of the country before.

You are obviously an expert in genealogical research. Would you mind if is started a new thread in relation to a brick wall i have hit?

Cold Harbour

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 08:49 (104 days ago) @ izzybfw

Hi

I definitely do NOT consider myself an expert in Genealological research. If pushed, i would probably describe myself as stubborn.
Anything i have learnt about this research stuff has come about mostly through reading, which i enjoy. Along the way, helpful hints in my own searches have come from members of this Forum, for which i am eternally grateful.
Two things i have learnt which might not be obvious to some, is to glean everything possible from a document, don't just glance at it.
Sometimes i have found answers for my own search by looking in to neighbours (on a Census Return).
Also, i find that the deeper you can delve in to a particular person or location or time period, the more information there is available.

Historical Newspapers can also be a good source for information. I will have a quick look to see what comes up.

Re your brick wall. I don't mind if you start a new thread. If i can help i will. This helps me learn more which is helpful for my own research. The main drawback for me is that i will probably get sidetracked reading about something interesting.

Re your trip to St. Briavels this weekend, i did a Google street view walk around the village today and there are quite a lot of old looking buildings there. (Although British History on line did state that in the early 19th Century a number of cottages were demolished) I live in Australia and i am always astounded how I can spend a good amount of time looking at maps of parts of the UK and roads which look like they would carry a fair bit of traffic turn out to be a country lane scarcely wide enough for one vehicle when viewed on Google Street View.
I will have a look at some of William and Charles neighbours from the 1841/51 Census and Tithe Apportionment Data base to see if I can pinpoint the locations of some of them where the building still exists today. I can visualise myself sitting in the George Inn having a pint of good cold beer, knowing that there would be a good chance that William or Charles actually drank there. Unless of course they were Teetotallers.

Sid Toomey

Cold Harbour

by izzybfw @, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 09:04 (104 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

Totally agree with your sentiments - i have to agree that this forum and the records contained in this site have been a godsend.
Many thanks

Cold Harbour

by izzybfw @, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 13:41 (104 days ago) @ sidtoomey01

thank you very much Sid Tooney for all the tips - i have the maps for the area and have spent a good while searching through this and the plots and comparing with the 1841 census.

I have managed to work out from the map and comparing it on google that from The George going up the high street the 1st property on the right hand side is The School Mistress Caroline Gardiner - 392, then comes Charles 393, then William 394. it then gets out of cinque as George Mills farmer (411) is next door to William and next to farmer Mills is The Plough Inn 410.

I would never in a million years worked any of that out without your information and tips.

many thanks

Cold Harbour

by MPGriffiths @, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 21:36 (104 days ago) @ izzybfw

Lloyd George Land Survey 1909 (on the net)

If you search for by address: St Briavels


There are 6 listings for Coldharbour : a mixture of Owners and Occupiers.....


Most of the places are on the map (on the above website) - with detailed land and houses etc.

Cold Harbour

by MPGriffiths @, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 21:45 (104 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

From Lloyd George Land Survey - St Briavels

Coldharbour (546)

Occupied by: James John (owner) - house

with other info .....

Coldharbour (555)

Occupied by: Beard, Thomas, Mark Farm, St Briavels, (owner) - 12 acres

Coldharbor (757)

Miss F Wall ace - (owner - house and land) - 3 acres

Coldharbour (759)

Occupied by: Ferneyhough, Henry - house ( Miss Wall ace, Owner)

Coldharbour (758)

Ferneyhouse Henry - land (owned by Miss Wall ace)
62 acres, 2 roods, 14 perches

Coldharbour (932)

Occupied by: Albert Reynolds

(owner: Albert BEACH, 4 Prospect Place, Quakers Yard, Treharris (Owner)

(had to Split the name WALL ACE - not accepted as a full name .....)

Cold Harbour

by MPGriffiths @, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 21:54 (104 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

On the 1901 Census

Gloucestershire, St Briavels, All - District 10

Coldharbour - starts on page 3

and

Ayden's is occupied by Margaret WALLIS - Head, Widow - aged 69 - living on own means - born Durham.

Cold Harbour

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Tuesday, June 08, 2021, 23:23 (104 days ago) @ izzybfw

Thank you for the compliment.
I mentioned them to my wife but she says i still have to dry the washing up.
I think this has been a good example of how the different sites can sometimes all come together to provide an answer.

Sid toomey

Cold Harbour

by sidtoomey01 @, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Thursday, June 10, 2021, 06:06 (102 days ago) @ izzybfw

Hi

I had a look at William (plot 394)and Charles (plot 393), comparing them to Google Street View and Ordnance Survey/Tithe maps Maps. Unfortunately i believe the houses no longer exist and have been replaced by a road leading in to a housing estate behind.
Standing on the High Street looking where they would have been, i believe that the left hand side of the stone building labelled as "The Old Granary" was the boundary and that the Granary building was the left hand side of Teacher Caroline Gardener's (plot 392).
However , across the road, plots 397 and 398, (also owned by William Court) look like they still exist, although modified.
In addition plot 387 looks like the building (footprint)still remains much the same as in the early maps.

Back to the Road leading in to the housing estate, i think this would have been post 1950 as an Ordnance Survey map from that period doesn't show it. You should still have a pretty good chance of locating photographs of the village pre 1960 which might show William and Charles, Houses. Francis Firth website have more than 50 photographs for sale dated around 1950. If you were familiar with the locations in the village you might be able to find some photo's of property owned by William Court. Some of Francis Firth are labelled High Street and also "The Square" which i believe might have been very close to where they lived.

Perhaps some other Forum user who might be more familiar with the area could shed more light.

Good luck.

Sid Toomey

RSS Feed of thread

powered by my little forum