Thomas Phipps (Urgent)

by davidgeorge @, Saturday, November 04, 2023, 13:46 (114 days ago)

I am researching the Phipps family from Abbey Dore in Herefordshire and found a possible link to the forest.
There is a newspaper report of manslaughter of a Aaron Roberts in January 1857. The assailant is a Thomas Phipps. Can anyone give me a little more information about Thomas Phipps, as I believe he is of this family?

Thomas Phipps

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, November 04, 2023, 16:36 (114 days ago) @ davidgeorge

Hi,
intrigued by this as I have a few Aaron Roberts in one of my trees, all in Ruardean Hill/Drybook area, but don't recall seeing this story before.

Please do you have any more info about it ?. Which paper was it reported in ?

Looking at this site's PRs I'm guessing this is the death you mention ?

Record_ID: 91142
Entry_Number: 1137
Year: 1857
Month: Jan
Day: 15
Surname: ROBERTS
Forenames: Aaron
Residence: Hawthorns
Age_at_death: 60 years
Officiating_Minister: H.G Nicholls
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: Burial detailsO.Y. R9 g9
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/11
Page_No: 143
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: R163

I see quite a few Thomas Phips/Phipps in this site's PRs database, have you searched them ?
Many PHIPPS PRs are in Aston Ingham area, so right on the border with Herefordshire, and not far from Drybrook. Looking at the Thos Phipps PRS, quite a few in Ross on Wye area.

Any idea of the age etc of your Thomas Phipps ?

Where did the offence take place ?- I've searched the Welsh Newspapers site but no sign of this yet event, those papers often covered events in the Dean.

Thomas Phipps

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, November 05, 2023, 07:58 (113 days ago) @ Jefff

Hereford Times : Saturday 17 January 1857

FOREST OF DEAN

EASTDEAN - MANSLAUGHTER

On Friday one of those brutal exhibitions of fighting took place near a beer-house, known as the Rising Sun, in the parish of Abbenhall, neare Mitcheldean, the antagonists being AARON ROBERTS a quarry man of Hope Mansel, Herefordshire, and THOMAS PHIPPS, of Hedge-Hill, in the township of Eastdean, the first of whom has since died from injuries received.

It appears that on the night in question MR TIMOTY BENNETT, of Mitcheldean, gave his men who are working at his new mine pit, situate at the Plump-Hill, 10s to be spent among them for beer to be had at the Rising Sun, kept by JAMES BARNARD. After they finished their work they went to Barnard's to have the beer. While there a quarrel ensued between the deceased ROBERTS and PHIPPS, who challenged each other to fight, and would have fought in the house had not the landlord prevented them.

After some time they left the house, when a fight instantly ensued, ROBERTS being knocked down on some wood, and when down he received two severe blows from PHIPPS. ROBERTS being knocked down on some wood, and when down he received two severe blows from PHIPPS. ROBERTS, with the assistance of BARNARD, go up, and walked in a fighting attitude towards PHIPPS, from whom whom he received some very severe blows, which knocked hid down; he got up this time, but appeared quite stupid.

PHIPPS then knocked him down the third time, when his head cam in contact with the ground. The blood was then running down from his head, and he lay on the ground apparently dead. He was conveyed to the beer-house, and in about a quarter of an hour recovered, and walked home, with the aid of two men, a distance of three miles.

On the following day he became much worse, and on Friday expired.

On Monday an inquest was held at the Crown Inn, Hope Mansel before H UNDERWOOD, Esq., when a verdict of manslaughter was returned against THOS. PHIPP, who was committed to take his trail at the next Hereford Assizes.

Thomas Phipps

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, November 05, 2023, 09:05 (113 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Hereford Journal Wednesday 21 January 1857

Has a long article headed

DEATH FROM DRUNKENNESS AND FIGHTING

VERDICT OF MANSLAUGHTER AGAINST THE SURVIVOR

Goes into details of the fight/witnesses and the findings of Chas E THOMPSON, Esq. Surgeon,

Ends by stating.

The verdict of the jury was - that THOMAS PHIPPS did, on the 5th January, feloniously slay and kill AARON ROBERTS, and the prisoner was thereupon committed for trial.

----

Hereford Journal - Wednesday 1 April 1857 (THE Assizes took place Thursday last) - again quite a long article

HEREFORD ASSIZES - (gives Thomas PHIPPS aged which was 27)

'His Lordship having explained the law of manslaughter, left it to the jury to say if this was a case in which they thought there was no excess on the part of the prisoner, and if so they were to find a verdict of not guilty; but if they were of the opinion that PHIPPS was the aggressor they would find a verdict of guilty. He hardly thought the evidence would support that view of the case; for it was evident, that ROBERTS the deceased, was doing all he could to get PHIPPS to fight, which PHIPPS was adverse to, and evidently anxious to avoid.'

The jury immediately returned a verdict of NOT QUILTY.

Thomas Phipps

by davidgeorge @, Sunday, November 05, 2023, 15:48 (113 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thanks for that I formation, as I did not know the outcome of the trial. My research of the census record had Thomas Phipps still living in Hereford, hence he was either the wrong Thomas Phipps or he was not guilty of the charge of manslaughter!!
So thanks for the information, my research for Thomas Phipps must be correct.
David

Aaron Roberts (1796 - 1857)

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, November 05, 2023, 22:26 (113 days ago) @ davidgeorge

Hi David,
thank you SO much for this post, and also to MPG and Slowhands for their research, I've found it all very interesting and helpful.
It's hard to be absolutely certain, seeing as the newspaper reports etc don't give an age for Aaron Roberts, and his wasn't a rare nameset in this area at this time, but it does seem very likely that this is the man from one of my trees.
Indeed, of the various Aaron/Aron/Arun Roberts detailed in this site's PRs database, my one is the youngest and the only one old enough to be drunk and fighting in 1857.

The Aaron Roberts I have was born in Ruardean in 1796, not far from Hope Mansell.

Record_ID: 470396
Entry_Number:
Year: 1796
Month: Feb
Day: 7
Parents_Surname: ROBERTS
Child_Forenames: Aaron
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: J H BEESTON - minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 26
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex: R163

Sadly the PRs don't give his occupation, his marriage record suggests he lived local to, but not in, the Parish of Walford - so it could well have been Hope Mansell. I wonder why they married at Walford, as both Aaron and his bride Phoebe had been baptised at Ruardean. All their parents were alive when they married, yet they were not even mentioned, possibly not present, at the service ?

Record_ID: 202456
Entry_Number: 110
Year: 1822
Month: Jan
Day: 31
Grooms_Surname: ROBERTS
Grooms_Forenames: Aaron
Grooms_Age: [not stated]
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: extraparochially
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: HARRIS
Brides_Forenames: Phebe
Brides_Age: [not stated]
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: extraparochially
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Mark of Maria Webb
Witness_2: James Webb
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: T. D. Fosbroke Min[iste]r
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/6
Page_Number: 37
Parish_Chapel: Walford
Soundex_Groom: R163
Soundex_Bride: H620

Record_ID: 470618
Entry_Number:
Year: 1801
Month: Apr
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: HARRIS
Child_Forenames: Phebe
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Phebe
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: J H BEESTON - minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 39
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex: H620


The 1841 Census shows Aaron, Phebe and their young family residing at Hope Mansell.

The 1851 Census again shows Aaron and family residing at Hope Mansell, where he's described as a labourer - which fits his reported job c1857 as a quarryman in that same place.

So I'm led to believe that the Aaron Roberts in my tree is the man who died in this sad and regretable incident of January 1857. His given age at death suggests a birth date of around 1797, which fits nicely.

Record_ID: 91142
Entry_Number: 1137
Year: 1857
Month: Jan
Day: 15
Surname: ROBERTS
Forenames: Aaron
Residence: Hawthorns
Age_at_death: 60 years
Officiating_Minister: H.G Nicholls
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: Burial detailsO.Y. R9 g9
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/11
Page_No: 143
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: R163

Aaron's name was remembered in perpetuity by successive generations of his family, the first being this baby who was buried the year later.... all very sad.

Record_ID: 91213
Entry_Number: 1207
Year: 1858
Month: May
Day: 25
Surname: ROBERTS
Forenames: Aaron
Residence: Hawthorns
Age_at_death: 7 Months
Officiating_Minister: W.A.Whitestone
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: Burial details O.Y. 3R 10g
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/11
Page_No: 151
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: R163

I haven't yet found a birth or baptism record for this child, maybe there isn't one, but given the date and address it seems likely to be one of the same family, a grandchild perhaps ?.


The reason Aaron Roberts d1857 is of interest to me is he is my brother-in-law's G-G-Grandfather. My brother-in-law was born on Ruardean Hill, and with my sister and I coming from the "big town" of Cinderford we've always joked that Rurdenill is a wild and dangerous place. In truth, and before I started researching his family tree about 10 years ago, we had NO reason whatsoever to believe that our family joke had any factual basis at all - my brother is an excellent chap, just like his own family. However, with the help of the old newspapers, I've found that the Roberts of Ruardean Hill seemed to have had more than their fair share of run-ins with the law, often involving beer houses - but of course in Victorian times life for most Foresters was a very harsh affair, altho the Roberts' perhaps took it to excess at times..... but we never ever expected to hear of a case as sad as this one.

Thanks again David for your post.

Aaron Roberts (1796 - 1857)

by davidgeorge @, Monday, November 06, 2023, 09:10 (112 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank Jeff for your reply. This is what I like about family history; uncovering the story and understanding life in those bygone years; very different to today.
Best wishes David

Aaron Roberts (1796 - 1857)

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, November 06, 2023, 20:15 (112 days ago) @ davidgeorge

I agree entirely David ! - seems a shame to me that some folk just want to quickly chase names and dates as far back as they can, with apparently no interest in the lives of their ancestors.
atb J

Aaron Roberts (1796 - 1857)

by MPGriffiths @, Monday, November 06, 2023, 10:01 (112 days ago) @ Jefff

You will see from an extract from the Herefordshire Assizes - 28 March 1857, AARON ROBERTS is (AN OLD MAN).

Phebe ROBERTS nee HARRIS Hawthorns 1800/1 - 1876

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Monday, November 06, 2023, 15:24 (112 days ago) @ Jefff

Year: 1801
Month: Apr
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: HARRIS
Child_Forenames: Phebe
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Phebe
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: J H BEESTON - minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 39
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

1841 Hope Mansell nr Perlue ( Perlieu today)
Aron Roberts Male 40 1801 -
Phoebe Roberts Female 40 1801 Herefordshire, England
Timothy Roberts Male 15 1826 Herefordshire, England
James Roberts Male 14 1827 Herefordshire, England
Charlotte Roberts Female 10 1831 Herefordshire, England
Emaly Roberts Female 8 1833 Herefordshire, England
Sophia Roberts Female 3 1838 Herefordshire, England
Hannah Roberts Female 0 1841 Herefordshire, England

1851 Silverstone, Hope Mansell, (Silverstone Farm today?)
Aaron Roberts Head Married Male 55 1796 Labourer Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
Phoebe Roberts Wife Married Female 50 1801 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Chorlotte Roberts Daughter Unmarried Female 20 1831 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Emily Roberts Daughter Unmarried Female 18 1833 - Gloucestershire, England
Sophia Roberts Daughter Unmarried Female 13 1838 - Gloucestershire, England
Hannah Roberts Mother Widow Female 84 1767 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1861 Hawthorns, Hope Mansell,
Phoebe Roberts Head Widow Female 60 1801 Labourers wife East Dean, Glamorgan, Wales
James Aaron Roberts Grandson - Male 8 1853 Scholar East Dean, Glamorgan, Wales
Elizabeth Ann Roberts Granddaughter - Female 5 1856 Scholar East Dean, Glamorgan, Wales

Next door

1861 Hawthorns, Hope Mansell,
Timothy Roberts Head Married Male 36 1825 Carter Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
Jane Roberts Wife Married Female 34 1827 Carters wife East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Eliza Roberts Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Patience Roberts Daughter - Female 5 1856 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Aaron Roberts Son - Male 2 1859 - Hope Mansell, Herefordshire, England

1871 Hope Mansell, Ross,
Phoebe Roberts Head - Female 69 1802 - Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Read Boarder - Male 32 1839 - Gloucestershire, England
William Read Grandson - Male 11 1860 - Herefordshire, England
Howard Read Grandson - Male 6 1865 - Herefordshire, England

1871 The Purlieu, Ruardean
Timothy Roberts Head - Male 45 1826 - Herefordshire, England
Jane Roberts Wife - Female 42 1829 - Herefordshire, England
Aaron Roberts Son - Male 12 1859 - Gloucestershire, England
Annabia Roberts Daughter - Female 7 1864 - Gloucestershire, England
Emma Roberts Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Gloucestershire, England
Milton Roberts Son - Male 6 1865 - Gloucestershire, England

Year: 1876
Month: Oct
Day: 1
Surname: ROBERTS
Forenames: Phoebe
Residence: The Hawthornes
Age_at_death: 76
Officiating_Minister: William Barker Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death: [not sta
Memoranda: Name is annotated OY
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/12
Page_No: 101
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

The area they are living in is just north of the Drybrook Limestone quarry and the rail tunnel north of the Euroclydon


Why did they marry out of parish without family ? possibly there was a child on its way

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Phebe ROBERTS Hawthorns 1800/1 - 1876

by MPGriffiths @, Monday, November 06, 2023, 15:56 (112 days ago) @ slowhands

There doesn't appear to be anyway I can attach Newspaper Articles to my replies. However, in the Gloucester Journal- 13 August 1870 and using 'Slowhands' census records, there is quite a long article in the Gloucester Journal, Saturday 13 August 1870, headed:

NISI PRIUS COURT, WEDNESDAY, (Before Mr Justice Mellor)

The Court opened at ten O'CLOCK
The following is

THE CAUSE LIST

Plaintiff's Attornies
Borlase and Robinson

Parties
Brain v Roberts

Nature of Action
Debt
Carter and Goold

Defendant's Attorneys

THURDAY
BRAIN V ROBERTS

This was an action by Mr A J BRAIN, an attorney at Hope Mansell, Herefordshire, against Mrs Phoebe ROBERTS and her son, Timothy ROBERTS, to cover 50l 9s 10d. claimed as principal and interest due on a promissory note.

Mr Powell, Q.C. and Mr J.O. Griffits were counsel for the Plaintiff, and Mr Huddleston Q.C. and Mr James W.C. for the defendant.

The note had been given in payment for a piece of land sold for 50l by the plaintiff to the defendants, but payment was resisted on the ground that the plaintiff had contracted to purchase from the defendants a cottage and another piece of land for 150l of which the 50l was to be considered as part payment, and as the plaintiff, on the ground of some defect of title, refused to complete his purchase, the defendants refused to pay their note.

etc. etc.

It was stated that the leasehold land was held of the Dean and Chapter on lives, one of whom was 92 years of age; and that TIMOTHY ROBERTS mortgaged the land sold by plaintiff, and had allowed judgement to go by default.

etc.etc.

Mrs ROBERTS, the other defendant was next examined. She said the plaintiff after he took up the deeds said he would give money for the property, and she replied that she would not then have the land in the Forest, which was a piece of old rubble, for which the would not give 10l. She understood she was to pay the 50l bill for the land.

Upon this answer the Judged interposed, and directed the jury to return a verdict for the plaintiff for 51l 10sl Verdict accordingly.


----

There seem to be quite a few Newspaper Articles on a Timothy ROBERTS - Collier, Lydbrook, i.e. trespassing in pursuit of game/drunk and disorderly/ assaulting a collier etc.

Phebe ROBERTS Hawthorns 1800/1 - 1876

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, November 06, 2023, 17:17 (112 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thanks again for this M, and your earlier post confirming that Aaron was an old man when he died, so almost certainly the one I thought it was. Plus of course your report today from the Hereford Times - before reading that detailed report I was surprised to find that Aaron had attacked a man of half his age. However I now see he was presumably a healthy strong man for his age, and clearly a very unpleasant man too, especially after a few drinks.

Events such as these, which don't seem to be that uncommon, rather makes one query why so many people nowadays talk so fondly about "the good old days", without realising that in fact they were very hard and difficult times indeed.

Thanks also for these mentions of his son Timothy Roberts.
Some years ago I "blitzed" the BNA website and found several mentions of the Roberts of Rurdenill and surrounding area, most of them suggesting they were a rather troublesome bunch. However I seem to have mislaid my findings, hopefully they will turn-up again over the next few months, my study is in some degree of confusion to put it mildly. :-)

atb J

Phebe ROBERTS nee HARRIS Hawthorns 1800/1 - 1876

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, November 06, 2023, 17:04 (112 days ago) @ slowhands

Hi S,
many thanks for this, the Census info I had for the famliy was only from the LDS/FamilySearch site, so I didn't have specific/precise place names etc, thanks for those extra essential details. Also thanks for confirming his wife Hannah was widowe at the time of the 1861 census - late last night it belatedly occurred to me to look-up that census, so thanks for doing so.

In truth, before this weekend, I'd not covered this branch of the tree in much detail at all, and that was some years ago when I first got into this great hobby; but as soon as I saw the mention of an Aaron Roberts in the newspaper reports I felt he was probably one of "mine". Just a shame his name can be spelt in so many ways, I recall it took me ages to find Aron on the 1841 census, for example, before I learnt about such pitfalls.

David's post and it's surprising outcome has persuaded me to renew my online subscriptions and make a determined effort to finish/update my own family trees, of which I have a dozen on the go - what little time I've had for FH research in recent years I've spent helping others with their queries, which is rewarding, but my own trees have been neglected, so thanks again everyone.

And yes, agree entirely as to why they married out of the Parish - or maybe the in-laws were worried that Aaron Roberts was a "bad un" ?. That said, yes by the 1851 census his own mother Hannah was now living with the family, which was hopefully an amicable arrangement.

Interesting.

Timothy ROBERTS 1824 - 1895

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Tuesday, November 07, 2023, 08:49 (111 days ago) @ slowhands

1853 ROBERTS Eliza Timothy Jane Drybrook
1856 ROBERTS Patience Turner Timothy Jane Drybrook
1859 ROBERTS Aaron Timothy Jane Drybrook
1859 ROBERTS Moses Timothy Jane Drybrook
1869 ROBERTS Emily Timothy Jane Forest of Dean Bible
Christian
1872 ROBERTS Hannah Timothy Jane Drybrook
1872 ROBERTS Milson Timothy Jane Drybrook
1872 ROBERTS Emma Timothy Jane Drybrook

Year: 1875
Month: Oct
Day: 28
Grooms_Surname: ROBERTS
Grooms_Forenames: George
Grooms_Age: Of Full Age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Ruardean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Roberts
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Abell
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: ROBERTS
Brides_Forenames: Patience
Brides_Age: Of Full Age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Ruardean
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Roberts
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Timothy
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: William Walding
Witness_2: Eliza Walding
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Wm Penfold
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/10
Page_Number: 71
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

1881 East Dean - Woodside
Timothy Roberts Head Married Male 57 1824 Coal miner Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England
Jane Roberts Wife Married Female 53 1828 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Milson Roberts Son Single Male 15 1866 Coal miner Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
Emma Roberts Daughter Single Female 12 1869 Scholar Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
Charles Goode Lodger Widower Male 33 1848 (coalminer) Gloucestershire, England

Year: 1882
Month: Jun
Day: 24
Surname: ROBERTS
Forenames: Jane
Residence: Bilson (The Purlin[?])
Age_at_death: 53
Officiating_Minister: William Barker Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death: [not sta
Memoranda: Name is annotated OY Timothy's
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/12
Page_No: 161
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

1891 Upper Bilson Cinderford
George Roberts Head Married Male 35 1856 Coalminer East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Patience Roberts Wife Married Female 35 1856 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Annie Roberts Daughter - Female 4 1887 - Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
Timothy Roberts Father Widower Male 67 1824 Labourer Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England ( should be father in law)
Charles Goode Boarder Widower Male 40 1851 Labourer -
Annie Matthews Niece - Female 7 1884 - Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England


Year: 1895
Month: May
Day: 28
Surname: ROBERTS
Forenames: Timothy
Residence: Bilson
Age_at_death: 71
Officiating_Minister: A.G. Gregor Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/13
Page_No: 94
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Thomas PHIPPS 1820-1863 ? EDGE HILL/Plump/Hazel Hill area

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Sunday, November 05, 2023, 13:47 (113 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Year: 1820
Month: Mar
Day: 5
Parents_Surname: PHIPPS
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Berry Hill
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: T K Mallet Rector
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born Jan[uar]y 25
Notes:
Register_Reference: P310 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 10
Parish_Chapel: Staunton

which gives him age of 37 in 1857

1841 Clearwell
Thomas Phepps Male 50 1791 Gloucestershire, England Ag Lab
Thomas Phepps Male 20 1821 Gloucestershire, England Iron Miner
Sarah Phepps Female 50 1791 Gloucestershire, England
Hannah Phepps Female 15 1826 Gloucestershire, England


Marriages Dec 1845 (>99%)
PHIPPS Thomas Ross 26 349
Simonds Elizabeth Ross 26 349
Symonds Elizabeth Ross 26 349

Year: 1846
Month: Jun
Day: 14
Parents_Surname: PHIPPS
Child_Forenames: Alice
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: John Horlick
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Daughter of: Born May 10th
Notes:
Register_Reference: D6026 8/1
Page_Number: 33
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean Congregational


1851 Hazel Hill
Thomas Phipps Head Married Male 28 1823 Iron miner Newland, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Phipps Wife Married Female 28 1823 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Alice Phipps Daughter - Female 4 1847 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Charlotte Phipps Daughter - Female 2 1849 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Year: 1855
Month: Sep
Day: 16
Parents_Surname: PHIPPS
Child_Forenames: Elam
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Plump Hill
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Joseph Lander
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Son of: Born Aug 19th 1855
Notes:
Register_Reference: D6026 8/1
Page_Number: 44
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean Congregational

Year: 1860
Month: Feb
Day: 12
Parents_Surname: PHIPPS
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Plump Hill
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Joseph Lander
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Son of: Born Jan 4th 1860
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: D6026 8/1
Page_Number: 49
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean Congregational

Year: 1860
Month: Feb
Day: 12
Parents_Surname: PHIPPS
Child_Forenames: Elizabeth
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Plump Hill
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Joseph Lander
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Daughter of: Born Jan 4th 1860
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: D6026 8/1
Page_Number: 49
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean Congregational


1861 Gloucester Road Lane End,

Elizabeth Phipps Wife Married Female 38 1823 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Ann Phipps Daughter - Female 14 1847 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Charlotte Phipps Daughter - Female 12 1849 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Leah Phipps Daughter - Female 8 1853 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Phipps Son - Male 6 (1) 1855 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Elem Phipps Son - Male 5 1856 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Phipps Daughter - Female 1 1860 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Deaths Mar 1863 (>99%)
Phipps Thomas Monmouth 11a 20

Marriages Dec 1870 (>99%)
MILES James Westbury S. 6a 465
PHIPPS Elizabeth Westbury S. 6a 465

Year: 1870
Month: Nov
Day: 10
Grooms_Surname: MILES
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: full age
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Gardener & Coachman
Grooms_Residence: Holy Trinity Vicarage
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Miles (deceased)
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Brides_Surname: PHIPPS
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age: full age
Brides_Condition: Widow
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Edge Hills
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Simmons
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Moses
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Mason
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: Thomas Powell
Witness_2: Eliza Powell
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: William Barker Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 16
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook


1871 Edge Hill
James Mills Head - Male 55 1816 - Monmouthshire, Wales
Elizabeth Mills Wife - Female 49 1822 - Gloucestershire, England
Elam Phipps Step-son - Male 15 1856 - Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Phipps Step-son - Male 11 1860 - Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Phipps Step-daughter - Female 11 1860 - Gloucestershire, England

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Thomas Phipps

by davidgeorge @, Sunday, November 05, 2023, 15:42 (113 days ago) @ Jefff

Newspapers are:
Monmouthshire Beacon 17 January 1857 page 7
Gloucester Chronicle 17 January 1857 page 3
Hereford Times 17 January 1857 page 9
Hereford Journal 21 January 1857 page 3
Cheltenham Examiner 21 January 1857 page 9
I do not have a subscription to the national newspapers archives, so have only read the introduction paragraph. I am hoping to view these records on Wednesday, when I am going to the reference library.
David

Thomas Phipps

by MPGriffiths @, Monday, November 06, 2023, 09:58 (112 days ago) @ davidgeorge

Missing off your list of Newspapers is

Hereford Journal
Wednesday 1 April 1857 which is over half a column of Herefordshire Assizes - where is stated the witnesses statements and Charles Edward Thompson, surgeon's findings.

Here is part of the article


'externally, there was a contusion of the eye, knee, and back of the head; on an internal examination he found the skull fractured, which was the cause of death, the lungs were healthy.'

====

Hereford Times, Saturday 28 March 1857

Mr SKINNER for the defence.

'It appeared from the evidence of JAMES BARNES, Landlord of the "Rising Sun" at Abeydore, and numerous other witnesses, that on the 5th January last there was 10s given to be spent in beer at his house;

the deceased ROBERTS acted as Chairman; during the evening he proposed that every many who swore an oath should have a cross made over his head and be fined a quart of beer; one of the first the break the new rule was deceased; the cross was made, and the same was done with others; shortly afterwards deceased swore another oath, and then the prisoner went to make the cross over head of the deceased, saying, :that makes two quarts for you; this this the deceased seems to have objected and further bad language and, although denied by the landlord, it was admitted by others that the deceased was rather fresh and began to be very troublesome, nothing seeming to satisfy him (ALTHOUGH AN OLD MAN) except he could fight the prisoner; he declared he could beat two such...... as the prisoner; the prisoner endeavoured to avoid him by promising to fight him some other day; eventually, the deceased was put out of the house, but got in by another door, and the prisoner went into another room to avoid, GOT HIS VIOLIN, and began to play for the amusement of those present;

Shortly afterwards, the deceased got into this room also, danced before the prisoner, saying he should like to fight him, and drew his stick over the prisoner's fiddle, but he was again put out of the house, and shortly afterwards the prisoner left for home, but on the road he was meet by the deceased, he was seen to rush at the prisoner, who struck at hime and knocked him down, was this repeated a second time, when the deceased lay insensible; he was picked up and carried to the "Rising Sun" and recovered so far, that with assurance he walked home a distance of three miles, still he wanted to fight some one, and was in a dreadful passion; he went to bed, and in three days he died.

------

So, AARON ROBERTS was the Chairman that day at the Pub and was AN OLD MAN.

THOS PHIPPS, played a Violin and entertained the other customers that night at the Pub.

Rising Sun Abenhall (destroyed 1865)

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Monday, November 06, 2023, 10:48 (112 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

https://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/pubs/rising-sun-abenhall-road-nr-mitcheldean/


Ideal "local" for Hazel Hill; between Shapridge Farm and Home House

Herefordshire journalist confused by Abbey Dore near Pontrillas ?

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Thomas Phipps

by davidgeorge @, Sunday, November 05, 2023, 21:38 (113 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi Jeff,
My search has Thomas Phipps coming from Abbey Dore. I can follow him through the census records and from a family story/rumour of this manslaughter case. How and why he was in East Dean at this time is causing me a bit of a problem, but he fits and as others have pointed out, there are Phipps families throughout the forest. Abbey Dore is North of the forest and South of Hereford, so the distance is not a problem.
David

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