Bath family Lydney

Hello listers
Is anyone researching the Bath family?

In 1851 'my' Elizabeth Parker (nee Morris) is in Lydney aged 69 a widow with her grandson Benjamin Bath age 10 living with her.

In 1861 she is in Lydney still with her grandson Henry Bath age 17

Can anyone claim these two boys and explain how they are related?

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Given they are adjacent family units, a reasonable conclusion is that "over spill" from the
congested parents home to the less congested grand parent's home, however someone may know better :-)

1851 Lydney

29
BATH William 42 Dealer in Iron Works Lydney
Mary 37 Elloe Gloucestershire ?
Edwin 12 Lydney
John 10 Lydney
James 5 Lydney
Elizabeth 6 Visitor St. Briavels
William son 10m Forest of Dean
JONES Visitor 12 Yorkley
BLUNT George Lodger 18 Staffs
30
PARKER Elizabeth Widow/er 69 Lydney
James 43 Labourer Lydney
BATH Benjamin Grandson 10 Scholar Lydney
Thomas Grandson 6 Scholar Lydney
Henry 4 Grandson Lydney
PARKER Martha Grand Daughter 2 Lydney

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Just rechecked the 1861

Benjamin is lodging with William and Mary Bath in 1861 (!)

and a few cottages away are Henry and his grand mother

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» Benjamin is lodging with William and Mary Bath in 1861 (!)
»

You are most kind. I know to us the fact that he is lodging there would mean that he does not belong to the family but would it have been the same then? I have had a root around and this is the stumbling block:

John Parker and Elizabeth Morris had seven children that I know of all of whom were born in Lydney. This includes Ann born 1812 and Elizabeth born in 1814. William Bath's wife is Mary A aged 37 in 1851 so she was born 1814 in Etloe which is three miles from Lydney - not far I know but you would have thought that if Mary and Elizabeth were twins they would both appear in the IGI not just one of them. If Mary Ann is John and Elizabeths daughter then she does not appear on the IGI for some reason. The only alternative I can think of is that Ann was in fact Mary Ann and the dates are a mismatch.

I fear I'm sinking into confusion again! Is there a marriage index for Gloucester which would cover the years around 1833 (when William and Mary Ann's oldest child Sarah was born)?
Thanks again
Brian

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I know to us the fact that he is lodging there would mean that he does not belong to the family but would it have been the same then?

I have seen Son, Nephew, Grandson, Adopted Son, and possibly a few others but as the relationship to the Head of family gets more complex I suspect Lodger was OK for the Enumerator !

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BMD entries for Chepstow ( for Lydney !)

March 1841 Benjamin Morris BATH Vol 26 Page 59
June 1844 Thomas Morris BATH Vol 26 Page 69
March 1847 Henry Morris BATH Vol 26 Page 7?

The Morris tie back to Grand mother is "strong" , you may be lucky
and discover more from one of these birth certs.

There is a death of an Elizabeth MORRIS recorded Dec 1847 in Chepstow Vol 26 Page 39
perhaps this was the boys' Mother (?)

1861 ( image appears to give James age as 5? not 51)
Charlotte Parker abt 1828 Whitecroft, Gloucestershire, England Wife Lydney Gloucestershire
James Parker abt 1810 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head Lydney Gloucestershire
Julia Parker abt 1856 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Lydney Gloucestershire
Pricilla Parker abt 1854 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Lydney Gloucestershire
Richard Parker abt 1860 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire

So it appears that James has married Charlotte , Martha Parker seems to have disappeared by 1861

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»
» There is a death of an Elizabeth MORRIS recorded Dec 1847 in Chepstow Vol
» 26 Page 39
» perhaps this was the boys' Mother (?)

I think this may be right as there is a marriage of Charles Bath and Elizabeth Parker in Newland in 1845. This would also be why Benjamin was 'lodging' with other members of the family
»

»
» So it appears that James has married Charlotte , Martha Parker seems to
» have disappeared by 1861

Thanks for this, Martha was visiting Thomas and Elizabeth Collins in Lydney then, shse later married Henry Butler of Ledbury before 1870 I think.

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Some entries from the Family Bible of Benjamin Morris Bath.

Benjamin Morris Bath (b.1841)
sp: Diana Hyett (b.1837 Lydney GLS; m. 26th August 1861; d. 7th December 1884.)

Mary Elizabeth Bath (b. 9th Sept 1861)

Fanny Elizabeth Bath (b. 8th Sept 1864

Joseph William Bath (b. 1867, Lydney)

Henry M Bath (b. 1869, Lydney)

Daniel H Bath (b.1871, Lydney)

Thomas C. Bath (b. 1873, Lydney)

Laura Bath (b. 1875, Lydney)

Emily M Bath (b.1876, Lydney)

Lois Diana Bath (b.1878, Lydney)

Benjamin Bath (b.1881, Lydney)

The second wife of Benjamin Morris Bath was my 2nd Great Grandmother,
Louisa Hulin (b. 1st January 1824, Newland, Coleford GLS. Married 26th August 1861; Died 23rd Sept 1908.

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1871

Benjamin Bath abt 1841 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head Lydney Gloucestershire
Daniel Bath abt 1871 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
Dina Bath abt 1836 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Wife Lydney Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Bath abt 1862 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Lydney Gloucestershire
Fanney Bath abt 1865 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Lydney Gloucestershire
Harry Bath abt 1869 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
Joseph Bath abt 1867 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Lydney Gloucestershire

1881
Benjamin Bath abt 1841 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Benjamin Bath abt 1881 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Daniel H. Bath abt 1871 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Diana Bath abt 1837 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Wife Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Emily M. Bath abt 1876 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Henry M. Bath abt 1869 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Joseph William Bath abt 1867 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Laura Bath abt 1875 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Lois Diana Bath abt 1878 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Thomas C. Bath abt 1873 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Francis Bath Or Hyett abt 1853 Allastone, Gloucestershire, England Boarder Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England
Mary Hyett abt 1809 Pennycare, Monmouth, Wales Mother in Law Allastone, Lydney, Gloucestershire, England

1891
Bath, Bengamin abt 1841 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head Lydney Gloucestershire
Bath, Emily abt 1876 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Lydney Gloucestershire
Bath, Henry abt 1869 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
Bath, Joseph abt 1867 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
Bath, Lois abt 1878 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Lydney Gloucestershire
Bath, Louisa abt 1830 Clearwell, Gloucestershire, England Wife Lydney Gloucestershire

1901
Benjamin Bath abt 1841 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head Lydney Monmouthshire
Louisa Bath abt 1827 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Wife Lydney Monmouthshire
Herbert Hamblin abt 1887 Two Bridges, Gloucestershire, England Grandson Lydney Monmouthshire
Alice Roberts abt 1867 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Stepdaughter Lydney Monmouthshire
George Thomas abt 1878 Tredegar, Monmouthshire, Wales Grandson Lydney Monmouthshire

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Thanks for the census information Slowhand, it has given me some more leads to follow up.

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Hi,Ian. Sorry that I directed this to Brian. It does get confusing.

I see that you are the second great grandson of Louisa Hulin. I am the second great grandson of her sister Charlotte. There were 2 other sisters, Caroline and Matilda, all the daughters of James and Esther (Hester) Bannister Hulin. I would love to exchange information with you and anyone else descended from the Hulins.

You listed Louisa's exact birthdate. May I ask where you got it. I only have her baptism date.of 12 January 1824. She was the oldest. James and Esther were not married until after Charlotte's birth in 1825.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Tom Price
Scranton, Pennsylvania

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The second wife of Benjamin Morris Bath was my 2nd Great Grandmother,
» Louisa Hulin (b. 1st January 1824, Newland, Coleford GLS. Married 26th
» August 1861; Died 23rd Sept 1908.

Thanks for all this Ian, I have two queries:

a - you have the same wedding date for both wives

b - was Louisa married before? (to Mr Roberts as the stepdaughter in 1901 has the surname Roberts)

I do have one or two extra bits and pieces to add if you would like to send me an email.

regards
Brian

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Census 1881 seems to be the family:

Richard ROBERTS Head M Male 64 Coleford, Gloucester Mason
Louisa ROBERTS Wife M Female 57 Eleavwell, Gloucester, England Richard ROBERTS Son U Male 28 Eleavwell, Gloucester, England Alice ROBERTS Daur U Female 14 Eleavwell, Gloucester, England George ROBERTS Grand Son U Male 2 Tredegar, Monmouth, England Printer Son George ROBERTSON (ROBERTS) Adopted U Male 12 Tredegar, Monmouth Dressmaker Son
Isabella MIELFORD Lodger W Female 47 (City), Middlesex, England Laundress

Source Information:
Dwelling 13 Cottage Grove
Census Place Lambeth, Surrey, England
Family History Library Film 1341141
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0613 / 108
Page Number 44

Can you confirm this?
Brian

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The George Robertson (Roberts) refered to in the 1881 census is in fact my Grandfather George James Thomas. He was adopted after his mother Louisa died, and we believe was abandoned by his father John Morris Thomas.

He would never speak of his father or his early years.

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Hello again Ian

Have you been able to find John Morris Thomas aged about 7 on the 1861 Census? This family seems to be a hotbed of convoluted relationships!

Brian

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Hi, Brian. I see that you are the second great grandson of Louisa Hulin. I am the second great grandson of her sister Charlotte. There were 2 other sisters, Caroline and Matilda, all the daughters of James and Esther (Hester) Bannister Hulin. I would love to exchange information with you and anyone else descended from the Hulins.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Tom Price
Scranton, Pennsylvania

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Hello Tom
In actual fact it is Ian Thomas who is Louisa Hulin's second great grandson, see above message from 25 June which I quoted in a reply to him on the same day. I am in fact descended from her husbands grandparents. There is therefore no blood relationship with her but you must be related to Ian I think - it does get quite complicated!
regards
Brian

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Dear Brian, Tom, Ian
I have enjoyed your discussions and added the appropriate parts of the Bath family history to my files.
Benjamin Morris Bath's daughter Fanny Elizabeth b 1864 married Albert Gunter in 1890 - my main interest is in the Gunter family ( originally English Bicknor) connection - have any of you researched Fanny & her Gunter connection

Regards, Bevan

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Penalt is only about 4 miles from English Bicknor, just over the River Wye in Monmouthshire

so related thread ?

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=415#p415

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HENRY GUNTER

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 29 APR 1827 English Bicknor, Gloucester, England

Parents:
Mother: CATHERINE GUNTER

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C036081 1813 - 1877 0855608 Film 6900600 Film
Sheet: 00

1841 HO107/364/2
Bicknor English

Registration district: Monmouth
Sub-registration district: Coleford
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Folio: 3

Edward Field 1806 Parson at Bicknor Rectory
Henry Gunter abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Bicknor English Gloucestershire
< Man servant>

1851
Henry Gunter abt 1827 Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Gunter abt 1823 Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Gunter abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
James Gunter abt 1850 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1861
Henry Gunter abt 1827 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Gunter abt 1825 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Albert Gunter abt 1860 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Gunter abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Gunter abt 1860 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Henry Gunter abt 1853 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
James Gunter abt 1851 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Tom Gunter abt 1855 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1871
Henry Gunter abt 1827 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Gunter abt 1825 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Gunter abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Edith Gunter abt 1857 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Gunter abt 1861 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Frederick Gunter abt 1866 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
George Gunter abt 1870 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Henry J Gunter abt 1853 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
James W Gunter abt 1851 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Lucy Gunter abt 1865 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Tom Gunter abt 1855 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1881
Henry Gunter abt 1827 Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Gunter abt 1825 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Albert Gunter abt 1860 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Edith Gunter abt 1858 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Gunter abt 1862 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Fredrick Gunter abt 1866 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
George Gunter abt 1866 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Lucy E. Gunter abt 1865 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire

1891
Albert Grunden abt 1860 Parkend, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Fanny Grunden abt 1865 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire

1901
Albert Gunter abt 1860 Parkend, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Fanny Gunter abt 1865 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Chalres A Gunter abt 1895 Kensley Sodge, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Dorothy L G Gunter abt 1897 Chesnuts Sodge, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Glady E E Gunter abt 1892 Kensley Sodge, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Madge S R Gunter abt 1894 Kensley Sodge, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Reginald E Gunter abt 1900 Chesnuts Sodge, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire

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Dear Slowhands,

Undoubtably Albert's father - and a great summary of their 1841-1901 census - thanks, Bevan.

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Thanks for this ....

These are my GUNTERS & BATHS even shows my grandmother amongst them... more for my tree
rgds

Bill

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Dear Slowhands,

Thanks for that - but Jim Scott & I have previously corresponded and our 2 Gunter families (both originating from Monmouthshire) do not currently appear to be related

Regards, Bevan

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I stand corrected Brian, Benjamin married Louisa Hulin on 24th Feb 1889 & Diana Hyett on the 26th August 1861.

Louisa was married to Richard Morefield Roberts of Coleford born 6th August 1816, died 15th March 1882 at 13 Cottage Grove Lambeth.

Their daughter Louisa Roberts born 11th January 1854, died 30th January 1880 giving birth to her second child. The first being my Grandfather, George James Thomas, born 1st November 1878, died 14th March 1958. She was married to John Morris Thomas born 1854(?)of whom I have have found no trace after Louisa's demise, and have hit a brick wall with his family.

I would be grateful for any other information on the John Morris Thomas'family. There seems to be a common link with the Morris name.

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Hi Brian, I've just read your item reguarding the Bath family. The couple Louisa Hulin and Richard Roberts are my 2x Gt Grandparents.
I would be delighted to exchange any information that we may have.
Regards.
Carol

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