John the Elder, Shoemaker researches, Guilds etc ? (General)

by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Thursday, January 08, 2015, 20:16 (3607 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi again Dan,
I’m wondering whether you’re thinking along the lines of documented proof of training, apprenticeships etc, or perhaps membership of Trade Unions or more likely craft Guilds ?
I guess that like me you may have seen the lucky celebrities on “Who Do You Think You Are ?” who sometimes see beautifull old registers and documents of their craft ancestor’s eg silversmiths or silk weavers ?.
However in truth I think such records that exist tend to be for those who trained in the major cities, seaports and later manufacturing centres such as the Potteries or Black Country. Sadly I think the vast majority of shoemakers, quite a numerous craft by the 1800s, who would have been apprenticed for several years to their proven teacher, probably related, would still not necessarily have documented proof of this retained at local government level; the proof of their skills being demonstrated by their success, or not, serving their local customers.

I’ve tried researching this from a shoemaker angle, not easy as most websites seem to relate to Shoemaker as a surname, particularly Stateside, or Schumacher etc. Hopefully you've read thro the Cordwainer links in the earlier post, it shows how Guilds for leather workers hence shoemakers were established way back in medieval times, particularly in Spain(Cordoba). I've also searched this forum for shoemaker links, but without luck yet.

This excellent set of webpages offers a variety of possible research routes for various trades and professions across all walks of life.
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/tutorials/jobs/guild-members

However, sadly I struggle to find any mention of such essential old crafts as shoemaking !?. As a mechanical engineer who’s proud of this country’s industrial heritage, it seems this list seems to reflect modern UK thinking (or not…) about such “basic” yet essential crafts as metal and leather working. Maybe this is a reflection that the modern UK’s idea of celebrities tend to be actors or sportsmen, if this TV series had been German or Russian I’m sure many more scientists and craftworkers would be researched…

Anyway, the above links do highlight the logical research path to be our local and National Archives. Whilst searching my mother’s surname in the Gloster Archives website I was delighted to find they had her grandfather's Apprenticeship Certificate as a woodturner, a small part of a set of that Longhope company's records that were unusually spared the bonfire when it closed a few decades ago. As with the other regional archives, Gloucestershire Archives are intrinsically & physically linked to the main National Archives at Kew, London, their websites reflect this. However don’t forget our area, particularly Newland/Staunton, is very near Monmouth so Monmouthshire Archives are also worth searching, and even perhaps Herefordshire.

I’m writing this after performing a general UK internet search for “John Haynes Gloucestershire shoemaker”. I always recommend such a search of a person’s name, adrees, etc, in case anything relevant comes-up, it often does, often from old posts on this forum !. Recently this has given hits to the UK government Archives, sometimes more effectively than using the National Archives’ own rather “odd” search engine.
In this case I’ve found this, there may well be more. Clearly they may NOT be directly linked to your family, but at least your surnames not a very common one (I’m a Jones…), so just maybe… ??

"FindingRef D2957/101/3
Title Littledean: Enfeoffment (Phillipss MS. 28361)
Date 1649
Description 25 October 1649
(1) James HAYNES of Colford Newland, shoemaker John HAYNES eldest son of J.H."etc...
Hopefully this direct link works for you,

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archiv...

Otherwise the homepage is http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&am...

Despite almost 20 years experience driving search engines, I still struggle with the main National Archives' one(ones?). Items I know are there I struggle to find again a week later, their search engine(s?) and perhaps database system has been changed or merged with others in recent years and perhaps that's why ?. The above link can be found as a cache (aka "old") page on the "old" National Archives website via Google, but not apparently from their own current website !?. Maybe this reflects they've farmed-out the Kew holdings/responsibility in favour of the prime holder at Gloucester ?.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cc9x2PVESq4J:http://www.nationalar...

The main latest Archives search engine is here, http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Eitherway, sometimes the Archives website can take repeated searching, with subtle tweaks of surname spelling, or placenames (eg Gloucester, then Gloucestershire, etc) to yield good results, so please be patient and persevere.
When searching the Archives' websites, like so many search engines often "little is more", over-specific searches often yield "no hits", yet a general "Wright, Gloucestershire" for example may give several hits to plough thro, some of which may be yours, or even previously unknown kinfolk.

Another example is searching "Haynes Littledean" on the main archives "Discovery" website immediately gives just 13 hits, including;
"Notes on the Haynes and Heane families", and also
"Transcripts from wills of Haynes and Heane families, dating from the 16th century onwards." Both are "Flaxley & Littledean, compiled by Miss Ellis". This wesbite tells us the full files are held by Gloster Archives.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=haynes+littledean

Yet searching Gloster Archives site for the same "Haynes Littledean" will NOT find them, as they're catalogued differently without the seemingly key word "Littledean"; so hunt "Haynes" and have 300 hits to sort thro, NOT all necessarily your ancestors of course.

Also oddly, I actually found the above links last night while using my laptop, which defaults to the "Google" search engine, but the battery died...
Today I'm at my preferred pc, whose "Bing" search engine DID NOT FIND these links !!???