Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Back to the forum index

Linear

Hello,
I am wondering if anyone can help me trace a John haynes of StBriavels however he may possibly have been born in Newland. I have him being born in 1808 and dying in 1886. I have his son as a William haynes b.1847. John is the furthest I have been able to go back on this branch of my tree which is rather poor compared to other branches. I would hugely appreciate any information that could be offered.

Many thanks

Dan

5918 views

For background

Looking at Gloucestershirebmd

HAYNES/BURLEY

Eliza - 1837 - Lydney
Charles - 1845 - Lydney ****
William - 1847 - Lydney

Marriage at Mitcheldean - 9 July 1832

John HAYNES - Bachelor, Hundred of St Briavels
no father's name stated

married

Margaret BURLEY - Spinster, Hundred of St Briavels

witnesses: Henry BOSSOM and Elizabeth BALDWIN of Mitcheldean, Spinster

1841 Census St Briavels

HAYNES

John - 30 - Shoe M - all born in County
Margret - 30
Sarah - 8
Thomas - 5
Eliza - 3
John - 1

---

1851 census St Briavels

HAINES

John - 44 - born St Briavels
Margaret - 39
John - 10
William - 4

---

1861 Census St Briavel

HAYNES

John - 54 Cordwainer, born St Briavels
Margaret - 50 - born St Briavels
John - 21 - born St Briavels
Eliza - 23 - born St Briavels
William - 14 - born Tidenham
Thomas HAYNES - Grandson - 2 - born Tidenham.

Given John was a Shoemaker - the baptism given in the other forum member's reply would seem to be most possible

Siblings - Jane - 1806/Charles 1810 & 1812 - Thomas 1816 - parents John (occupation, Shoemaker) and Elizabeth
---

Gloucestershire Genealogical database

John HAYNES, Cordwainer, St Briavels - 1816 (Overseers)
---

On Public Members Tree: John HAYNES, batchelor of Newland, married Elizabeth MORGAN of Stanton - 13 February 1804 at Newland - one witness was Thomas HAYNES

---

? ?? This needs a bit of work, but in later census - Thomas HAYNES is in St Marylebone, Middex

1871 22 Bradley Terrace

Thomas - 56 - Tailor, born Glos (by 1881 a Widower but born St Briavels)
Mary - 61
Lucy - 21
Mary - 19

1861 Census - 22 Bradley Terrace

Thomas - 46 - tailor, born St Boswells (St Briavels)
Mary - 49 - born Middlesex
Thomas - 13
Lucy - 11
Mary - 9
Charles BEXSIX - 19 - born St Boswells

---

1851 Census 22 Bradley Terrace

HAYNER

Thomas - 39 - Tailor, born Coleford, Glos
Mary - 39 - born St Marylbone
Thomas - 3 months ?
Lucy - 16 months ?
William WEBB - Boarder - 14 - pauper, born Bristol
Eliza TAYLOR Visitor - 26 - born Coleford

6000 views

Thanks you so much for all that. I have johns parents as being John and Elizabeth but wasn't sure how accurate that was. This has been really helpful and also interesting with the potential Middlesex links.

Dan

5904 views

From this sites records and no doubt other people with access to Ancestry etc will give you more.

Record_ID: 1043911
Entry_Number: 571
Year: 1808
Month: Apr
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: HAYNES
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: St. Briavels
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[ma]s Thomas Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 22
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels
Soundex: H520

Possible parents
Record_ID: 62193
Entry_Number: 190
Year: 1804
Month: Feb
Day: 13
Grooms_Surname: HAYNES
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: MORGAN
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Stanton
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Thomas Haynes
Witness_2: Thos Bond
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Tay[lo]r Matt[he]w Procter vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/10
Page_Number: 64
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex_Groom: H520
Soundex_Bride: M625

Possible sister:-
Record_ID 1043868
Entry_Number 528
Year 1806
Month May
Day 4
Parents_Surname HAYNES
Child_Forenames Jane
Fathers_Forenames John
Mothers_Forenames Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname
Residence St. Briavels
Occupation
Officiating_Minister Tho[ma]s Thomas Curate
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P278 IN 1/4
Page_Number 20
Parish_Chapel St Briavels
Soundex H520

Dave

5919 views

Noticed a Thomas Haynes was witness at John Senior's marriage in 1804, so searching all Haynes in St Briavels gave this, possibly John Junior's brothers. If so then clearly the family kept to tried & tested names thro generations, which can be both a help and a hindrance when tracing the line. I'm sure you know but always remember to lookout for spelling variations for this surname.

Record_ID: 59079
Entry_Number: 82
Year: 1816
Month: Jun
Day: 2
Parents_Surname: HAYNES
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: St Briavels
Occupation: Shoemaker
Officiating_Minister: Geo. Ridout
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 11
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels
Soundex: H520

Also a likely brother

Record_ID 1043973
Entry_Number 633
Year 1810
Month Dec
Day 9
Parents_Surname HAYNES
Child_Forenames Charles
Fathers_Forenames John
Mothers_Forenames Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname
Residence St Briavels
Occupation
Officiating_Minister Tho[ma]s Thomas Curate
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P278 IN 1/4
Page_Number 25
Parish_Chapel St Briavels
Soundex H520

As MPG has shown so well in the past, tracing the witnesses at Marriages is a great way to grow a family, they're often older relatives, or to find best friends(neighbours ?) to help tie a family down in the Census.

However IF this is Charles' marriage (dont forget usually wed in the bride's parish, and for early marriages often didnt give ages etc etc), this is not overly helpful, even IF it's relevant (all quite common names locally)
Must try to tie all these in with the corresponding Census' which unfortunately, as you probably know, only started in 1841.

Record_ID: 27125
Entry_Number: 64
Year: 1837
Month: Feb
Day: 13
Grooms_Surname: HAYNES
Grooms_Forenames: Charles
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: residing on extraparochial land of the Forest of D
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: GWILLIAM
Brides_Forenames: Salome
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: residing on extraparochial land of the Forest of D
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Mark of Emily Gwilliam
Witness_2: Christopher Hulin
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Yate Fosbroke Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/11
Page_Number: 22
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels
Soundex_Groom: H520
Soundex_Bride: G450

Back to Thomas b1816 above, this could be his (second) marriage, the father's name and trade match perfectly, unlike with the more numerous coalminers, say, only one or two shoemakers in a village.

Record_ID: 28634
Entry_Number: 231
Year: 1866
Month: Sep
Day: 16
Grooms_Surname: HAYNES
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: full
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Tidenham
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Haynes
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Shoemaker
Brides_Surname: LANSDOWN
Brides_Forenames: Mary Ann
Brides_Age: 19
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Tidenham
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Lansdown
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Blacksmith
Licence_or_Banns: [not stated]
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: he marks she signs
Witness_1: William Haynes
Witness_2: Jane Lewis
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Percy Burd Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P333 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 116
Parish_Chapel: Tidenham
Soundex_Groom: H520
Soundex_Bride: L523

AND to further complicate, found this Baptism, father John, shoemaker(as above), so looks a good fit for the above Groom, HOWEVER mother is Margaret not Elizabeth, so ??
CLEARLY need to "tread" carefully here, MUST tie-in these PRs with the Census's and untangle the family, but not tonight I'm afraid..

Re the Census', even for early PRs such as this, quite often Census's would show parents or inlaws living-in with their grownup children, or maybe next-door, to help us go back beyond the 1841).

Record_ID: 59626
Entry_Number: 689
Year: 1835
Month: Feb
Day: 3
Parents_Surname: HAYNES
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Margaret
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: St Briavels
Occupation: Shoemaker
Officiating_Minister: Yate Fosbroke Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 87
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels
Soundex: H520

(And found all these PRs without ticking the Soundex box to get the various Haines etc etc ....)

Re Hawdon's earlier post, would be usefull to find a future marriage for Jane Haynes b1806 (and so hopefully get parent/witness clues), but as yet no luck. Not forgetting the high infant mortaility rate in those days, so check the burials too.

--------------

Hi again Dan, don't know if you've seen this old thread, once again I find I should have remembered to search the forum before posting, this thread very helpfully lists Census' data for your family.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=2886

6091 views

Seems possibly a little late but this looks like one of your Johns ?

"Morris & Co. Commercial Directory & Gazetteer of Saint Briavels 1876

Trades & Professions

HAYNES John, shoemaker, The Common."

Much more general detail abt the area in the full entry, here
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cbennett/stbriavels1876.htm

The definitive history of St Briavels can be read here, sadly no specific mention of your ancestors.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp247-271

5850 views

Incidental information from the BNA,

This could be John the Elder or Younger, I suppose,

Gloucester Chronicle Saturday 08 November 1834

St. Briavels Gloucestershire

TO BE SOLD BY AUCTION

All those four eligibly situated and substantially stone-built MESSUAGES or Tenements………………
………….and in the several occupations of……..John Haynes, Shoemaker £5 (per annum, paid quarterly)……………….
The houses are conveniently situated in the centre of the village near the castle…………

This could be John the Elder,

Gloucester Journal Monday 05 September 1814

ST. BRIAVELLS , September 3, 1814

A ROBBERY

WHEREAS ON Wednesday Evening last as JOHN HAYNES, of the village of St. Briavells, was returning home between the hours of Eight and Nine o’Clock, he was met by two Foot Pads, who presented pistols to his head, demanded his money, and robbed him of Cash and Bills to the amount of Fourteen Pounds Nineteen Shillings (maybe upwards of £500 today), within half a mile of his own house………………
…………………..upon conviction shall receive a reward of TEN GUINEAS from me.

John the Younger?

Cheltenham Chronicle Thursday 12 January1843

GLOUCESTERSHIRE EPIPHANY SESSIONS

John Haynes, charged with stealing at St. Briavels, a piece of timber, the property of William James, was acquitted.

5870 views

Thank you all so much for this. I can't believe how much information you have managed to dig up. As you can probably tell I am relatively new to this. Could anyone advise on where would be a good place to look for John seniors parents. I would like to trace this line back further as it is also my surname.

Thank you all once again for your help.

Dan

5879 views

I guess this is feasible for John the Elder,

1841 Census, Coleford Tithing, Parish of Newland, Coleway Lane

John HAINS, 65, Shoe.m, born in county
Elizabeth, 65, not born in county
Ebenezer Bradly?, 25, Tailor, born in county

1851 Census, West Dean, St. Paul’s, Palmers Flat

John HAYNES, Head, M, 78, Shoemaker, b. Glos. Newland
Elizabeth, Wife, M, 78, b. Monmouth Penalth (Monmouth Penallt?)

If "Stanton" were actually to be "Staunton" (not the one near Newent)on the 1804 HAYNES/MORGAN marriage this would tie in nicely geographically. (There is a Stanton but it's some distance away near the Worcester border.)

Record_ID: 258706
Entry_Number:
Year: 1774
Month: Feb
Day: 21
Parents_Surname: MORGAN
Child_Forenames: Elizabeth
Fathers_Forenames: Henry
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P310 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 13
Parish_Chapel: Staunton

5875 views

Yes that would tie in perfectly and it also looks like I have a family of shoemakers. I take it that the Staunton to which you refer would be between newland and Monmouth.

Many thanks once again This has been a real help and can hopefully give me something to go on

Dan

5863 views

Yes, about 3km east of the Wye. The Staunton near Newent is a good distance away and close to the Worcestershire border.

5845 views

Dan,
glad to hear you're making progress !
Excellent map centred on Staunton here.
http://forest-of-dean.net/index.php/resources/15-maps/98-forest-of-dean-west-circa-1900
Monmouth is at L/H edge of map due west of Staunton.

More maps from different eras and scales may be found under the heading "The Forest of Dean" at centre of the blue menu bar along top of this page, well-worth exploring them, not to mention all the other subject from this menu bar.

The definitive history of Staunton may be read here
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp272-284

A small part of this mentions shoemakers at your ancestor's time, probably gained from an earlier Trade Directory, or the 1851 Census.

"Three smiths, a carpenter, and a tiler recorded at Staunton in 1608 were probably based in the village, though Highmeadow hamlet also had a few tradesmen at the period: a blacksmith of Highmeadow was mentioned in 1560, two tailors later in the 16th century, and a carpenter in 1639. In 1851, apart from those employed in the woods, 12 non-agricultural tradesmen were recorded in Staunton parish, including a grocer, a tailor, a blacksmith, and 3 shoemakers. A boot repairer recorded in 1939 was one of the last representatives of traditional village trades."

However by 1876 the only shoemaker that was paying to be listed in the Morris Directory for Staunton was a James Powell, by which time of course John Haynes listed was in the "St Briavels" Directory as I posted elsewhere.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cbennett/staunton1876.htm

5860 views

Was this an ultimate consequence of the robbery John seems to have suffered in 1814?

The London Gazette 25 March 1817 Issue 17235 Page 775

BY order of the Court for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors the petitions of…………. John HAYNES, late of St. Briavels, Gloucestershire, Shoemaker………….. now prisoners for debt confined in His Majesty’s prison at St. Briavels………….(hearing set for 15 April next)

5844 views

Oh that's interesting Mike it does sound like the same person. It does sound highly likely that with John and his children all being in relatively the same area, St briavels, newland, Staunton, that I am on the right lines here.

Jeff thanks very much for the links. I do not know Staunton all that well so I did find the history of it very interesting. I am wondering if John haynes was a shoe maker would he be relatively well documented and if so where would be a good place to take a look, suggestions would be much appreciated.

Dan

5812 views

Your welcome to the links Dan, no problems.
Also thanks for mentioning your background knowledge, this forum gets visitors from Monmouth to Mongolia (well, almost) so it can be hard to know what level to pitch the answers.

Re John the shoemaker, don't forget in those days, especially in an area where most men needed good boots for working in the pits, and most provisions were bought locally, every town and even village had at least one shoemaker; probably doing a lot of repairs as well as making new, and all properly stitched etc leather then, no stick-on plastic soles !. No disrespect at all to John, he was clearly a skilled craftsman, but we're not necessarily talking footwear you might find worn by a wealthy gent in the city, perhaps made in Northampton say. Those shoemakers who felt they offered a better class of product sometimmes called themselves cordwainers, wheras John doesn't appear to. Hence I would say the links I've given, to the Trade Directories etc, are probably the nearest you'll find in terms of more written info about him. The other usual place to look would be the old Newspapers, as Mike is already doing.

For cordwainer see http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/c2.html

5840 views

Hi again Dan,
I’m wondering whether you’re thinking along the lines of documented proof of training, apprenticeships etc, or perhaps membership of Trade Unions or more likely craft Guilds ?
I guess that like me you may have seen the lucky celebrities on “Who Do You Think You Are ?” who sometimes see beautifull old registers and documents of their craft ancestor’s eg silversmiths or silk weavers ?.
However in truth I think such records that exist tend to be for those who trained in the major cities, seaports and later manufacturing centres such as the Potteries or Black Country. Sadly I think the vast majority of shoemakers, quite a numerous craft by the 1800s, who would have been apprenticed for several years to their proven teacher, probably related, would still not necessarily have documented proof of this retained at local government level; the proof of their skills being demonstrated by their success, or not, serving their local customers.

I’ve tried researching this from a shoemaker angle, not easy as most websites seem to relate to Shoemaker as a surname, particularly Stateside, or Schumacher etc. Hopefully you've read thro the Cordwainer links in the earlier post, it shows how Guilds for leather workers hence shoemakers were established way back in medieval times, particularly in Spain(Cordoba). I've also searched this forum for shoemaker links, but without luck yet.

This excellent set of webpages offers a variety of possible research routes for various trades and professions across all walks of life.
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/tutorials/jobs/guild-members

However, sadly I struggle to find any mention of such essential old crafts as shoemaking !?. As a mechanical engineer who’s proud of this country’s industrial heritage, it seems this list seems to reflect modern UK thinking (or not…) about such “basic” yet essential crafts as metal and leather working. Maybe this is a reflection that the modern UK’s idea of celebrities tend to be actors or sportsmen, if this TV series had been German or Russian I’m sure many more scientists and craftworkers would be researched…

Anyway, the above links do highlight the logical research path to be our local and National Archives. Whilst searching my mother’s surname in the Gloster Archives website I was delighted to find they had her grandfather's Apprenticeship Certificate as a woodturner, a small part of a set of that Longhope company's records that were unusually spared the bonfire when it closed a few decades ago. As with the other regional archives, Gloucestershire Archives are intrinsically & physically linked to the main National Archives at Kew, London, their websites reflect this. However don’t forget our area, particularly Newland/Staunton, is very near Monmouth so Monmouthshire Archives are also worth searching, and even perhaps Herefordshire.

I’m writing this after performing a general UK internet search for “John Haynes Gloucestershire shoemaker”. I always recommend such a search of a person’s name, adrees, etc, in case anything relevant comes-up, it often does, often from old posts on this forum !. Recently this has given hits to the UK government Archives, sometimes more effectively than using the National Archives’ own rather “odd” search engine.
In this case I’ve found this, there may well be more. Clearly they may NOT be directly linked to your family, but at least your surnames not a very common one (I’m a Jones…), so just maybe… ??

"FindingRef D2957/101/3
Title Littledean: Enfeoffment (Phillipss MS. 28361)
Date 1649
Description 25 October 1649
(1) James HAYNES of Colford Newland, shoemaker John HAYNES eldest son of J.H."etc...
Hopefully this direct link works for you,

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archiv...

Otherwise the homepage is http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&am...

Despite almost 20 years experience driving search engines, I still struggle with the main National Archives' one(ones?). Items I know are there I struggle to find again a week later, their search engine(s?) and perhaps database system has been changed or merged with others in recent years and perhaps that's why ?. The above link can be found as a cache (aka "old") page on the "old" National Archives website via Google, but not apparently from their own current website !?. Maybe this reflects they've farmed-out the Kew holdings/responsibility in favour of the prime holder at Gloucester ?.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cc9x2PVESq4J:http://www.nationalar...

The main latest Archives search engine is here, http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Eitherway, sometimes the Archives website can take repeated searching, with subtle tweaks of surname spelling, or placenames (eg Gloucester, then Gloucestershire, etc) to yield good results, so please be patient and persevere.
When searching the Archives' websites, like so many search engines often "little is more", over-specific searches often yield "no hits", yet a general "Wright, Gloucestershire" for example may give several hits to plough thro, some of which may be yours, or even previously unknown kinfolk.

Another example is searching "Haynes Littledean" on the main archives "Discovery" website immediately gives just 13 hits, including;
"Notes on the Haynes and Heane families", and also
"Transcripts from wills of Haynes and Heane families, dating from the 16th century onwards." Both are "Flaxley & Littledean, compiled by Miss Ellis". This wesbite tells us the full files are held by Gloster Archives.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=haynes+littledean

Yet searching Gloster Archives site for the same "Haynes Littledean" will NOT find them, as they're catalogued differently without the seemingly key word "Littledean"; so hunt "Haynes" and have 300 hits to sort thro, NOT all necessarily your ancestors of course.

Also oddly, I actually found the above links last night while using my laptop, which defaults to the "Google" search engine, but the battery died...
Today I'm at my preferred pc, whose "Bing" search engine DID NOT FIND these links !!???

6209 views

(Continued from above)

OF COURSE, please ensure you've exhausted THIS FoD site's HUGE database of info first, particularly the RESOURCES menu, eg "WILLS". Think it's already been mentioned, it includes this Will, the original of which is at Gloster Archives I believe; also worth looking at other Haynes incase anymore Shoemakers exist, to give possible family links such as sons in neighbouring villages, say.

Surname HAYNES
First Name John
Abode Cold Harbour St Briavels
Occupation Shoemaker
Year Proved 1886
Page Number 163
Year of Death 1886
Month of Death Mar
Day of Death 6
Value Under £12
Document Will
Notes
Will Number Will_02029

This was found by searching for "Testators". Searching "Beneficiaries" for Haynes gives Margaret as his wife, and William as his son, both 1886.

Another section worth searching is "INQUESTS".
I've found a few cases where Inquests in a given village and era have included the same particular family members on several juries - one likes to think it's because that ancestor was considered a well-respected "pillar" of the local community.

"PHOTOS" section, if you're lucky you may find a photo that includes your ancestors shoe shop. Most of the old photos included in this and other FoD related sites were ppstcards that were filmed and printed by local professional photographers for saile locally, so town centre scenes were very popular subjects.

Finally for now the "DOCUMENTS" section.
This huge database really can reward thorough and methodical reading, as again one can find ancestors and families, or even their homes etc, mentioned in subjects you might never have thought to research, all helping to buildup the family story.
Mentions of your ancestors within the Newspaper clippings and other Articles probably won't be found by just using the site's search engine, but it doesn't take too long to read thro them, and if nothing else its a great way to learn about the people and the geography of the Forest.

The site's search engine does, however, find this "Haynes" which may have been mentioned already, is he one of yours ?;

From Kelly's Directory of East Dean, 1879

"Cinderford
COMMERCIAL

Haynes Charles, boot & shoe maker"

This Directory lists SEVEN shoemakers in Cinderford alone !
In case you didn't know, Cinderford had bigger, busier mines nearby than the older Coleford near your Newland/Staunton area.

This entry is repeated within the "Slater's Directory of Newnham 1868, With the Parishes and Villages of Awre, Blakeney, Cinderford, Blaisdon, Flaxley, Little Dean, and the South End Hamlets of East Dean."
Found while simply googling "Haynes Lttledean".
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cbennett/newnham1868.htm

NB: Other Directories are available from the earlier 1800s on this freeview Leicester University website, see
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=40683

Cinderford is my home town, on the Eastern edge of the Forest so opposite to Newland & Coleford. It's only a mile or so over the hill from Littledean, which is outside of the high/Forest "inner" Dean. Littledean is a truly ancient village compared to Cinderford (which is of mid 1800s mining origins), and in farming country not far from Westbury On Severn, which along with Monmouth was the centre of FoD local Government for centuries before the inner Forest was opened-up. So it's POSSIBLE that the Haynes shoemakers arrived at the Forest from, MAYBE, Gloster way, first settling in Littledean, then later moving west into Staunton etc as the inner Forest became settled by the influx of miners and ironworkers, all needing boots and shues.... But this is for you to prove, or disprove; I'm only guessing !

================================

Don't forget in your case to also search for "Haines" as well as "Haynes", as sometimes spelling errors were made, by journalists, local government officials, directory printers etc, plus as you go back in history to times when general literacy standards were lower, even family members might spell the name differently than you might expect.

Do hope this has helped, good luck with your searches !
Please, if you do find out anything more, please post it on this thread; particularly any usefull sources or links, as this forum is itself an excellent reference for future researchers.
You might also like to consider making a donation towards the physical upkeep of the forum, thanks.

PS Sorry I've mispelt "shues" and "saile" earlier, but this webpage doesn't permit certain words for sensible security reasons, especially retail-related ones.

5903 views

Jeff

I really cannot believe how much you have given me to go on here I will be busy for months. I am originally from Bream where my parents still live. My father was one of the last free miners in the Forest and I have always been interested in the history of the forest and certainly the industrial side of it. I now live just up the road from Stonehenge but still regularly visit the forest. My uncle has also been working on the family tree and has been for much longer than myself so I regularly speak with him about new findings, he also posts to this site regularly.

You can be assured that any further information that I find will be posted below. And a donation will be certainly made, you have ensured that.

Many thanks once again for all your help I cannot thank you enough for this.

Daniel Haynes

5826 views

Hi Dan,
thanks for your too-kind words, but all I've done is apply a few "skills" that I learnt from the other members of this forum, and this site's owners, they are the people you should thank, I'm just the messenger !

Sounds like we have a lot in common, I grewup in Cinderford but had to leave in the mid 80s for work, my family still there and Coalway too. Spent a lot of pocketmoney before that at Haines bike shop in Cinderford, a distant relation of your perhaps ?. These last few days I've seen a few more Haines blacksmiths etc in the Trade Directories in your old Coleford area, do you know if they were your relatives, probably not I thought ?. It was only after moving away that I started learning England's industrial heritage, but only abt 6 years ago, when I first found this great site, that I realised just HOW important the Forest was at the start of it all, shame it wasn't mentioned in school at Five Acres. I now know far more abt the Forest than I did when I lived there, terrible really but better late than never !

I THINK I see from this site's records your father maybe registered as a freeminer about the same as mine retired, mine was the son of generations of Lydbrook miners. This was just months after I'd started my engineering Apprenticeship at Ranks. I hope you've seen what looks like your father's freeminer record on this site, again the Resources section, altho I'm sure you knew the details anyway !
http://www.minersadvice.co.uk/monument_pit.htm

Finally, if you want to search the local newspapers for your family, the old DF Mercurys are accessible at Cinderford library, the Citizen is online at the British Newspaper Archives as are other local papers (this is the subscription site Mike has searched for you) and also the free Welsh Newspapers site sometimes helps; these prior threads will guide you.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=34654
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=40632
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=34751

Again, good luck with your searches, but be warned it can become very addictive !

Please keep coming back to visit and share, thanks again,
Jeff and the whole forum.

5900 views

One last post for now, Dan.

For a FH beginner I suggest this thread should help you, it includes some really useful websites which are free to access, they're often used on this forum especially FreeBMD and GlosBMD

see www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=entry&id=35296

One of the sites mentioned in this post is the Gloster Archives "genealogical database", which is really useful and very user-friendly to operate. This site was mentioned very early in this thread by MPG wrt John Haynes c1816, as an overseer(of the poor)

If you search John Haynes the site will give 100+ hits from across the County, careful browsing shows a couple of these look like your family, apologies if this has already been mentioned in this thread, I've not seen it;

Year 1842
Surname HAYNES Forename John
Age 33 Date of Committal 15 Dec 1842
Public Address St Briavels
Occupation Shoemaker Reference Q/Gc5/7

I've never used the service, but paying a small charge online can purchase what I presume is the full record. However I've seen a few cases on here where the same record, especially Criminal ones, can be obtained from Ancestry.
http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/article/107400/Genealogical-database

Finally, regarding "Ancestry", a simplified version of this major US-based subscription website may be accessed f-o-charge in most public libraries, you cannot plot family tree etc (but you can do this at home just by registering, also f-o-c), but you can still search and download most of the site's records, census' records, military service, etc, etc. My local library also offers free access to "Find My Past", yours may too, which have different resources to investigate.

Hope this helps, atb J.

PS just searched the Welsh Newspapers site, as mentioned on the previous post. I tend to search it with a surname pus placename, they liked to use the phrase "Dean Forest" as well as say "Monmouth" or "Lydney".

From the "Monmouthshire Merlin" of 25th April 1863

"FOREST OF DEAN.
APPOINTMENT OF OVERSEERS AND CONSTABLES.
ST. BRIAVELS.- Overseers: John Rossiter, Mr. J. C. L. Denton — Constables: Thomas Jones William Jones, John Haynes, Charles Jones. WEST DEAN .Overseers James Marlin, Richard Morse, Edward Vimhany, Daniel Simms. Constables.- William Morse, James James, J.Trattle, William Cook, James Kersey, Henry Morse, James Watkins, Daniel Jenkins, George Rider, Joseph Crips, J. Hawkins, J. Baldwin. NEWLAND.—Overseers Benjamin Wilmot Provis, Wiliam Miles, Henry Burg- ham, Richard Phillips.—Constables Isaac Cullis, Joseph Morris, Samuel Roberts, Thomas Richards, James Groves, Moses Moisey, Thomas Hall, Thomas Batten. ENGLISH BECKNOR.—Overseers Thomas Morgan, Thomas Ivins. —Constables Richard James, William Cooper.
GUARDIANS FOR NEWLAND AND WEST DEAN.-The following have been appointed to serve as guardians for the parishes of Newland and West Dean :-Newland- Isiiah Trotter, James Morse, Daniel Wherrett, and William King. West Dean-John P. Thomas, Thomas Batten, and W. Wood."

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3400290/ART55

For "overseers" explanation, see http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=56548&p=0

==============================

UPDATE !

While simply googling "Haynes Littledean" I found this website which has your family tree including Charles b1838 Littledean (maybe the shoemaker in Cinderford in above Directories ?)), grandson to John in St Briavels, who is thought to have been born Frampton on Severn c1766 (I noticed several Haynes-Frampton records on the Glos Archives Gen.website mentioned earlier).

I urge caution not to assume it's entirely accurate as often we see public trees contain assumptions which are then copied elsewhere to become "facts". Best to always check for yourself, in fact probably best to ignore this tree until you have your own to compare it with.
http://www.geni.com/people/Charles-Haynes/6000000003890707586

5920 views

Jeff,
My grandfather William Albert haynes, who until I started researching, knew as Albert haynes was the blacksmith at princess royal colliery for a long time. There are several pictures of him on forest history sites. Also on my fathers side was alfred harris who kept a diary of goings on within the Forest of Dean that has been very useful for seeking information on family members. If you have not read this then I would recommend it as u did find it incredibly useful and also interesting.

Thanks once again for even more information. With reference to the haynes tree on Geni that you sent me the link for, I may be being stupid but I can't see how that fits in to my family tree as I dont recognise any of the names and dates.

Regards

Dan

5842 views

Dan,

I'm new to the Forum, not sure how much you have found out about John?. I have a William Haynes born 1811 in St Briavels, in my family tree abit of a coincidence for them not to be related?

Garry

4138 views

RSS Feed of thread

powered by my little forum