Alice COX nee BRAIN. Cinderford High St pub? c1911. (General)

by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Sunday, March 18, 2018, 22:11 (2231 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi again Mike, sorry for asking which pub Alice was at in 1911, I probably should have just said "wondered" and left it at that ! :-)

Looking at Cinderford High Street pubs in Heather Hurley's excellent book "Pubs of the RFoD", I can't help but be drawn to the entry for the "Severn Stars" established in 1864. It tells us that in 1903 the landlord was an Oliver Brain, under Alton Court Brewery, and adds that two women followed one another as landladies during the 1920s and '30s, before passing to West Country Breweries in 1962 and subsequent closure.

Could one of those landladies have been Alice ?.

I posted this FamilySearch transcript for Alice Cox (nee Brain), could Alice and her niece Ivy been a relation of Oliver Brain at the Seven Stars ?

1911 East Dean, Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Alice Cox Head F 48 Widow. Licensed house. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Ivy Brain Niece F 10 Cinderford, Gloucestershire

This site has this excellent photo of the Seven Stars and some helpful info on landlords from the GlosPubs Easywell site.
http://forest-of-dean.net/gallery/cinderford/pages/page_62.html

The photo's notes include these previous licencees;
1902 Oliver Brain
1903 Oliver James Brain. Alehouse. Alton Court Brewery, Ross on Wye
1906 Robert Taylor
1919,1927 Kate Palfrey (Mrs)
1939 Ben Voyce

So looks unlikely that Alice was there in the 20s & 30s, but what about Oliver James Brain ?

I think this is niece Ivy Brain in 1901, with father James an Innkeeper. A little more info on this transcript but still not a precise placement on High Street. The Ruardean Hill home location may lean towards Alice who ended her days there ?.

1901 High Street, Woodside St Stephens, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Brain Head M 32 Inn Keeper. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
M Brain Wife F 31 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire
Annie M Brain Daughter F 6 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
William J Brain Son M 5 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Emily B Brain Daughter F 4 Cinderford
Edgar J Brain Son M 2 Cinderford
Ivy L Brain Daughter F 0 Cinderford
Annie S Pimple Servant F 16 London

I've searched without luck for a birth record for Ivy L Brain c1901, I wonder if her second name was mis-heard when the Census was taken ?

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Births Mar 1901 (>99%)
BRAIN Ivy Alexandra S Westbury S 6a 289

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
BRAIN Ivy Alexandra Sophia PALMER 1901 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 9 89

Record_ID: 134519
Entry_Number:
Year: 1908
Month: Apr
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: BRAIN
Child_Forenames: Ivy Alexandria Sophia
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Annie Bessie
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Cinderford
Occupation: Publican
Officiating_Minister: H E Barnet Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 118
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: B650

Also

Record_ID: 473364
Entry_Number: 521
Year: 1894
Month: Jun
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: BRAIN
Child_Forenames: Annie Maud May
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Bessie
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: Edward Parnell Rector
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 66
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex: B650

etc.

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BRAIN James PALMER Annie Bessie Forest of Dean Monmouth Register Office 1892 17 113

1911 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Brain Head M 41 Publican. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Bessie Brain Wife F 40 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire
May Brain Daughter F 16 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Cissie Brain Daughter F 14 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Eddy Brain Son M 12 Cindeford, Gloucestershire
W Bowen Boarder M 33 Hinley

And here's Alice Brain in the same household, who we already know was born abt 1863 and married James Cox in 1894. So Alice is James' elder sister.

1881 Ruardean Hill,East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Brain Head M 29 Miner. East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Jane Brain Wife F 36 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Alice Brain Daughter F 18 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
James Brain Son M 13 Scholar. East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Brain Daughter F 11 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Thos Brain Son M 6 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1871 Ruardean Hill, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Brain Head M 28 Coal Miner. East Dean, Gloucestershire
Jane Brain Wife F 27 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alice Brain Daughter F 8 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Sophia Brain Daughter F 5 East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Brain Son M 2 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Jane Elizabeth Brain Daughter F 0 East Dean, Gloucestershire

Which is all very well, BUT is this James Brain the SAME MAN as Oliver James Brain at the Seven Stars in 1903 ??

Probably not, he was known as just Oliver the year before, yet none of the above records mention Oliver... ?

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Thankfully, Heather Hurley's book goes onto say "at least two other beerhouses existed somewhere in the High Street. One of these was The Bell, recorded as kept by John Briscoe in 1879, before ownership passed to Wintle's Forest Brewery at Mitcheldean c1889. James Brain was recorded at the Bell in 1903 and may have been the last tender before it closed in 1911."

So it does look like Alice Cox nee Brain was at the Bell, with her brother James.

Returning to the GlosPubs site, despite there being 65 hits when searching the word "Cinderford", thankfully The Bell is only on the 5th page. It carries more detail, saying this Beerhouse had three public rooms with one for lodgers, it had stabling, James Brain was tenant landlord for 14 years from 1897 until it closed in February 1912, and it was within 50 yards of the Globe Inn !
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/AllGlosPubs_view.php